That is me on the left in early 1991. I’ve posted this photo before but it is one of the only photos of myself that I have from back then. I didn’t like having my photo taken.
I have seen these questions making the rounds all over social media and I thought I would join in since my answers will be a bit different compared to a lot of the other answers I have seen. This is due to being old and also being heavily into punk music.
1. How long have I been goth? My area of the San Francisco East Bay did not start using the word until around 90-91. Some of my favourite bands in high school in the late 80’s, that are considered goth, were Specimen, Siouxsie And The Banshees, The Cure, Gene Loves Jezebel and The Cult. So I have been listening to the music since about 1986. During that time I also loved U2 and The Dead Kennedys so musically I was all over the place. I didn’t call myself a goth until about 92 because the people who used the term first in my area were the uber goobers and I did not want to be lumped in with them. They took themselves way too seriously, which I never did. I have also always had a foot in the punk subculture.
2. How was I introduced to goth? Nobody sat me down and told me what to listen to or how to dress. There was no internet, of course, and it could be kind of difficult to find out about bands. At the first high school I went to I was the only person in my friend group who listened to the music, and they thought the music was too weird. There was a Bay Area ‘modern rock’ station during that time that would play the more obscure stuff late at night and that’s how I learned about a few of them . At my second high school there were more weirdos, and some of them were quite helpful with bands. Back then the term ‘post-punk’ wasn’t used at all in my area, rather all weirdo music, except for punk of course, was called ‘alternative’ or ‘modern rock’. The term ‘alternative’ was ruined by the mainstream record labels who used it for grunge in their attempt to sell ‘weirdo’ music to the masses.
3. What gothic subgenre would you put yourself in? If you regularly read this blog then you know how much I dislike all of the ‘goth type’ crap. It originated as a joke in the 90’s, making fun of the stereotypes seen in clubs. For whatever reason a lot of younger folks, and some deluded old ones, feel the need to fit themselves into a box. I do tend to listen to a lot of deathrock music, probably more-so than any other ‘type’ but I refuse to call myself ‘deathrock’ because there is more to me than just one form of music, and I refuse to box myself in just to please others.
4. What do you believe to be the bases(basis) of the gothic subculture? First, I would love to point out how the person who wrote out these questions uses both the terms ‘goth’ and ‘gothic’. We used to always use both of the terms interchangeability way back when but now ‘gothic’ means spooky architecture, while ‘goth’ means the subculture. I think the basis of the subculture is the music more than anything else. Without the music there wouldn’t be a subculture. Period. The clothes and make-up are secondary. Anybody who calls themselves goth but who doesn’t listen to actual goth bands is more than likely a trend whore; a person who jumps from trend to trend. Since the term has been super popular in the mainstream for the last few years there are quite a few of these people floating around all wearing the same really shit Demonia boots and the same kind of outfits. I find them all boring, but it is rather entertaining when these fashion victims bitch about their Demonias falling apart within a week of wearing them.
5. What do I dislike about being goth? I know that a lot of goth women bitch about being sexually harassed by men who think all goth women are kinky, but that hasn’t happened to me at all in real life. I think it’s mainly because I look older and use a cane. There are some upsides to being diseased and middle aged. There really isn’t anything that I dislike since I am in my own bubble of existence. I am just me being me.
6. What do your parents think of it? My mom was with me when I got my first undercut in 88, so she has always been very supportive of me and has said that if she had been my age she would also be goth. I have a cool mom. My dad died back in 85. I honestly think that his death had a lot to do with me becoming a weirdo. I was already an outcast for being poor and having a dead parent so morphing into a goth/punk weirdo wasn’t a huge step for me to take. In fact just about everybody into goth/punk music back then was some sort of societal reject.
7. Eyebrows or no eyebrows? Eyebrows, because I look like crap with them shaved off.
8. What is my favourite band? I have a holy trinity of all time favourite bands; Samhain, Christian Death (mostly Valor) and The Dead Kennedys (Jello only). Those three groups have probably influenced me more than anything else. I actually got to tell Valor that in person the other month which was cool as hell. Uber goober Rozz fanatics may get mad at me for liking Valor’s music more than the music of Rozz but I just don’t give a shit. Seriously. Stay angry and irrational over something that happened about 40 years ago, it’s entertaining.
9. My opinion on Marilyn Manson? This question is a bit young for me since I was already in my twenties when he reared his very ugly head. I remember seeing people younger than me at the clubs in the late 90’s trying to look like him and it was hysterically funny. The fact that it came out that he is an abusive asshole didn’t come as a shock to me. In the wise words of Jello Biafra:
You ain’t hardcore ’cause you spike your hair
When a jock still lives inside your head
10. What were my baby bat days like? I didn’t really experience that because I was so all over the place musically. However, it kind of sucked being into both punk and goth bands at the same time back over 30 years ago because according to some people I was too punk for goth and too goth for punk. The punk subculture was way more welcoming to me and I actually gained the nickname Vampira because of dressing in all black and loving the Misfits, Samhain and Danzig. It was actually a bit tough being a woman into those three bands back then; they were considered ‘guy’ bands because of the violent imagery and horror content of the songs. I have always been into horror and sci-fi films and novels so I identified very heavily with those bands and they spoke to me a lot. Kids these days get into the fashion first and then the music, but back then it was the opposite. I listened to goth and punk music first and then slowly started dressing ‘dark’. Even back then I did a lot of DIY type projects so I always painted my own leather jackets and upcycled clothing. However, there was a US clothing chain called Contempo Casuals who sold a whole lot of weirdo friendly clothing. Just about every single person I knew back then had a least a few pieces of clothing by them. I had a pair of black crushed velvet leggings from there that lasted me about ten years. No joke! So the older people in the US saying that all they did was thrift is a total lie, and they know it. I even found a long multi-layer black lace skirt in a regular mall store back then.
So, that is it! I hope you had as much fun reading this as I had writing it. As you can see my experiences are a bit different since I was also into punk and got into the music first. It was a road of discovery for me, not a destination. Especially considering that the term ‘goth’ wasn’t even used in my area until after I was already listening to the music.
As I have previously stated before on this blog I do not accept anything for free for reviewing products. I have always felt that it is really disingenuous to accept free swag and then brag about it online. That is what so many younger content creators are doing within the online goth/punk communities these days and I find it really boring and trite. This is all to say that I bought every single item that you see contained in this post.
The back of those same shirts. The red print looking white in these photos are just reflections, the lettering is not white at all.
Have you never seen these Samhain shirt designs before? Me neither, and that is why I had to get them. Out of Glenn Danzig’s three different bands Samhain is the one that doesn’t have the insane level of gear that the other two have, so it is difficult to find items of the band that are out of the ordinary. This seller on Etsy has designs that I have never seen before so I am assuming that they came up with them themselves. I mean some of the elements of the designs I am familiar with, but I have never seen them quite like this before. They cost me about £18.00 each and for the price they are really good looking. The red is a little orange in places but you can’t notice that unless you are looking up close. All in all I am very happy with this purchase.
Yes, that is a Bee Gees patch and I am not ashamed!
I have been buying a lot of patches lately. Some are going to be for the Glenn Danzig themed jacket while some others will be used in projects in the future. I especially love the hand-painted severed heads Misfits patch. It’s such a work of beauty that I had to order more patches from her. If you are into Glenn Danzig at all, or like spooky imagery, you will spend money at her shop.
If a band that you like has little to no merchandise Etsy is a great place to find gear. Make no mistake, you should always look on Bandcamp first but Etsy is there for you if you happen to like bands that broke up decades ago. The only thing I would make sure to do is read the reviews of the products, because there are people on there selling substandard gear out of China. In fact there are whole stores on there that do that. When in doubt do an easy reverse image search, because that will tell you if multiple stores are selling the exact same item.
A glass pumpkin cookie jar that has become my new spooky hair clips container.
I haven’t made a music themed jacket in a little over thirty years, Seriously, it has been that long. Why? Because I am a fangirl of so many different kinds of things that it makes it difficult for me to just focus on one aspect as to who I am.
I have been massively listening to the Misfits, Samhain and Danzig lately, if you haven’t noticed, and an idea popped into my head a few weeks ago; make a Glenn Danzig themed jacket! Originally I was going to use a New Look striped jacket that I got on clearance, but after some thinking I am going to use the one below instead. It’s another New Look clearance jacket that I got about five years ago.
Love the 50’s vibe of this jacket.
If you are a fan of Glenn you know that the number 138 is a Misfits reference. I had sewn those numbers onto the jacket a few years back so in reality it was already started. Over the last few weeks I have been scouring Etsy for cool Misfits, Samhain and Danzig patches and I have found some really unusual ones. Also, I will be putting some spooky little patches on it as filler because to do otherwise would be blasphemous. On top of that I have bought a bunch of cone studs. I just have to be patient for all of the goods to trickle in. I don’t want to start until they are all here. If I have some that I won’t use I will just save them for a future project.
I really hope that this inspires you to create something of your own. I believe in you and if you ever have any questions about how to proceed with a DIY project please feel free to contact me because I would love to help if I can.
Before I start I would like to give a shout-out to Killstar since I know they are reading this. If any Killstar employees wants to pass information to me I guarantee you that I will not share your name or the position that you hold within the company. My email address is on my contact page.
Well, I have decided to start a weekly post in which I discuss all of the crap that Killstar is pulling and has pulled. Multiple fast fashion ‘drops’ a week, constant sales, and info about Bertram Capital their private equity firm owner. I will always do this over the weekend; Saturday or Sunday. Some weeks I may skip it if I become too busy. I do all of the research and writing on this blog myself so that is a given.
We will always remember you Tom. Take care!
Remember that dude that works for Bertram Capital and sits on Killstar’s board of directors? The man that led me down the rabbit hole, Tom Beerle, is now not listed on Killstar’s LinkedIn page. Also, he took sitting on the board of Killstar off of his LinkedIn CV. No joke! Too late Killstar, too late.
Killstar have been having sale….after sale…..after sale. Just this morning they have added a brand new gimmick. So exciting, right? If you purchase any of their bat themed products you get 30 % off of your entire shopping cart. This seems a bit sneaky to me, like they are trying to skirt UK trading standard laws. You are not supposed to release products for a high price and then turn around a couple of days later and put them on sale for the price they should have been in the first place. Naughty naughty! It is basically the same 30% off sale that they have been doing on and off for a few months now. They are beginning to remind me of those discounted mattress stores that always have sales going on, that are mostly fronts to launder cash. I’m not saying that Killstar are laundering their money, I am just saying that there really seems to be something nefarious bubbling beneath the surface here. The private equity firm is definitely a part of it but trying to skirt UK trading standard laws just reeks of desperation.
Who do they think they are fooling? You.
As I posted here Killstar have blocked me from commenting on their Facebook page. Do you know who also blocked me from commenting on their Facebook page about five years ago? Donald J. Trump. He had to unblock others and I because he was going against the 1st Amendment of the US Constitution in the United States. I am a very politically aware fifty-one year old goth/punk music fan. I was listening to the Dead Kennedys when I went to high school in the late 1980’s. When I was sixteen years old in 1987 I gave George Schultz, the then Secretary Of State under Reagan, the bird and loudly told him to fuck off when his limo motorcade went by me on a school trip to DC. If a powerful US government official didn’t scare me at sixteen then it would be safe to assume that Killstar will never scare me into silence.
The above is a conversation that took place on Reddit today on the r/Killstar group. We have all been banned from creating new posts in the group. We aren’t sure who is running it so it could just be a Killstar fangirl who is pissed off at us. Apparently Killstar took down a video of one of their influencers on Instagram because she couldn’t fit her boobs into one of the Avril tops. Also, the above people claim that Killstar are actively deleting negative comments about the whole Avril fiasco. Things aren’t going to plan for them. I honestly think that they didn’t expect the backlash that they have received. Why? Because they haven’t a clue about how the goth and punk subcultures actually work. They think that they can just stick a Satanic pentagram on a zipper and everybody will want to buy it because goths and punks are really into Satan and shit like that. They actually see all as edgy teens that want to scare people. How boring.
Killstar ‘dropped’ another ‘collection’ a few days ago that is just a lot of the same styles as usual and all with the exact same print of moons, stars and other really over used symbols that they slap onto everything
Don’t they look thrilled?
Well, that’s it for this week. I hope you have enjoyed reading this as much as I enjoyed writing this. Take care!
EDIT: I already wrote this whole post yesterday morning, before Killstar blocked me on their Facebook page. HI KILLSTAR, thanks for the block! You have proven that my analysis about who bought you is correct. Cheers!
EDIT 2: Sure you are doing financially well Killstar….sure. They just dumped yet another drop onto their site this morning. It contains all of the same print on everything…..yet again. £20 for a dinner plate? Wahahaha!!!!
You are reading that correctly. Killstar, against all logic, actually thought that the majority of their customers would like this ‘collection’. This actually pretty much proves that they are run by a private equity firm, because only a private equity firm would think that Avril is in any way goth or punk. They don’t have a clue about the subcultures at all. Well, I took screen shots of this entire visual fiasco so that I could give my opinions. The above photo is showing styles that they have already done but now with skeletons and barbed wire. Also, they are see through. I guess that they think that people want to show off their nipples or something? There must have been a fire sale in China of this cheap looking material for them to use it so much in just about every ‘drop’ that they do.
Yet more sheer material with the same exact print. How stunning, how original! NOT! I am not going to blast the pink because obnoxious colours can be fun when done the right way. Just not like this.
They should have collaborated with Pepto Bismol. They would have saved money. Boring. Oh, and look at the witch hats. Spooky!
I totally don’t understand the sheer trouser thing. How the hell are you supposed to wear them outside? I guess they think that people want to show off their undies? Again, the same boring prints.
They have brought out yet more of the wannabe witch hats. I guess they are telling all of the kids that they will still look like a wannabe witch in the outfits as long as they are wearing one of their black hats. Killstar is such a silly goose! The same boring prints and sheer material. That material doesn’t breathe so I can well imagine somebody passing out while wearing it in the heat.
The exact same patterns again, and again, and again, and again. Killstar and Avril sure know how to channel their creativity, don’t they? Oh, and all of the clothing is still that crap see through material. This time they plucked up their courage and made things in some black sheer material, like they almost always do anyway. Such courage and how forward thinking!
I bet that suitcase, if put in the cargo hold, would not survive many flights. It could easily be dented because it’s made of plastic. Those ‘bras’ are made of that same….sheer….material. Wearing polyester on your boobs when it is hot is going to make them itch like hell no matter your cup size. Just saying.
Sheer polyester panties? Ahoy yeast infections!
Yet more yeast infection inducing panties AND a yeast infection inducing sheer polyester bodysuit. I wonder if the private equity firm who now owns them has stock in a treatment for yeast infections because it really feels like they want you to get one, or even several. What fun!
They call that a cloak? It’s more like a Halloween costume because when the hell did cloaks start not having openings in the front? It 100% looks like something that would be sold by Spirit in their scary goth/punk rocker section but for less money.
Hooray, we are at the end now! When have harnesses been equated with Avril Lavigne? Seriously. I guess they are trying to throw their wannabe witch customers a bone?
I can’t wait to see what boring insanely priced crap they are going to come out with next. Since Halloween is coming up I bet you anything they are going to show how goth and punk costumes can be made with their clothes. I’m calling it!
You read that correctly, I have been blocked by Killstar so that I can no longer comment, or even give a a laugh reaction on their Facebook page. Gee I wonder who else has done that to me before? Scammers that I report to Facebook. What do private equity firms love to do? Scam people. So, thank you Killstar for proving me right. By the way, here is a link to that article that has them so angry with me, and why they blocked me on Facebook. I’M NOT BACKING DOWN KILLSTAR!
See that broken cone stud on the edge of that lapel? This is that same photo I originally used.
Before I dig in I would like to give a huge shoutout to Jello Biafra, the original singer songwriter of the Dead Kennedys. He taught me to never trust corporations, especially when they are trying to sell pre-packaged rebellion to the masses. He even wrote a song called Anarchy For Sale way back in 1986. THANK YOU JELLO!!!!
Killstar right now are acting like an ex who will tell you that something never happened even though you saw it happen with your own eyes. However, they are dealing with somebody who has been around the block for decades. I am not somebody who can be bribed away with promises of free merchandise or promotion. Even when I was a teen in the 1980’s I never fell for that type of crap. I refused to wear labels; so much so that people thought I was nuts for ripping a Guess label off of a pair of jeans I had back then. So, what I am trying to say is that I am not a person that they can easily make go away. In fact their current actions make me want to latch on even more securly and not let go; like a tick, but I am getting fat off of their gaslighting instead of blood.
I have mentioned this before but I used to buy clearanced out clothing from them and use the items in DIY projects because the quality at that point wasn’t as bad as it is currently. I just looked and the last time I bought from them was in October of last year. This is worth mentioning in case they try to point this out and use it against me. Anyway, off we go!
Holy Photoshop, that stud has magically reappeared!
Yep, you are seeing that right. That same photo that I snatched from Killstar’s website now has no missing stud! They put a new photo next to it to pretend that it never happened, but since I’m not a complete idiot I was not easily fooled. This proves that they are actually paying attention to me. I am beginning to be a thorn in their side which fills my cold dead heart with warmth and happiness.
Remember, if you see something wrong going on within the goth/punk communities always speak up about it and drag it into the light of day so that others can also make informed decisions.
Just so that you know what side of the equation I stand on. Jello is life.
Imagine my shock and horror when I found out that an article about ‘goth’ had appeared on MTV’s website. Why shock and horror? Because MTV has had a very long history of promoting corporate music. The Dead Kennedys back in the 80’s knew what was up and Jello even penned an excellent song detailing the issues surrounding the channel. About forty years later and nothing has changed.
First off, before I get stuck in, when the fuck did it become cool to be excited about MTV? I was a teen in the 80’s, so yes I did watch it back then. However, by the late 80’s I understood what was going on; they were trying to sell and promote their idea of ‘cool’ to me. By the time The Beastie Boys came about with their very sexist and frat boy bullshit the channel was dead to me. Where I lived at the time there was a local channel that would show obscure alternative/modern rock videos every weekday late in the afternoon and I would always watch it. It was the music that was too ‘out there’ for MTV, so I was very fortunate. I know this.
Let’s begin! I will be showing the sections I have issues with and then I will give a response.
‘ How e-kid style presaged the dark subculture’s resurgence… ‘
From the very start this article makes me wince. The term ‘presaged’ means a sign or warning of an imminent event. I fully don’t understand how some e-kid fashion victims had anything to do with the goth music resurgence that has been happening for the last few years. Oh wait…the author is equating goth with just a fashion style? Oh dear.
‘ A new aesthetic inspired by Y2K futurism, anime, nu-metal, mall goth, and mid-’00s emo rose among a group dubbed the “e-kids.” This interest in 2K culture reignited an adjacent style as well: goth fashion and, by extension, goth music. ‘
Um….no, just no. The whole ‘e-kid’ crap did not reignite goth fashion or goth music. Goth fashion and goth music never went away, it has always been around. These e-kids are so desperate for an identity, any identity, that they try them on and then throw them away once they are done with them after a few months. Teens have always done this sort of thing, but because of the internet they just go through identities way more quickly and in a more shallow manner. For example, if these kids want to be ‘goth’ they will get their parents to buy them entire outfits from dark alternative clothing websites and ask around as to how they should do their make-up so that they can be judged as a ‘true goth’. For many that is how deep it goes; just a ready made fashion statement, a box to fit themselves into. Do some of them actually get into goth music? Of course, but I think they are heavily outnumbered by the ones who don’t.
‘ The roots of goth are deep and nuanced. Starting in the late 1970s and into the 1980s in the United Kingdom as an offshoot of post-punk acts like Killing Joke, as well as the rich voice of Nico, goth took inspiration from Victorian-era dress (long black gowns, lace, boots, and clove cigarettes), literature, society, and the grim theatrical nature of the early 20th century vamps and silent film stars, like Theda Bara. The term “goth” as an adjective for music wasn’t recorded until 1967, when music critic John Stickney called The Doors “gothic rock.” During the ’70s, goth developed in the United States with bands like Christian Death, known for seminal hits like 1982’s “Romeo’s Distress.” Some of the most famous goth groups in the ’80s — many of whom remain shorthand for the very word — include The Cure, Siouxsie and the Banshees, and Joy Division. ‘
I know that I just quoted an entire paragraph, but there is just so much to unpack here that I feel like I have no choice in the matter. The goth subculture, which is mainly about the music, came right out of punk. The clothing aspect of the goth subculture also came right out of punk. Earlier goth bands, like Sex Gang Children, still had the punk ethos of making music that challenged people, that made people think. They just did it more artistically than the punk music that inspired them. Also, not everybody back then copied Victorian fashion. People within the early subculture were not just one block of people listening to Bauhaus and dressing like fainting Victorian ingenues. What does smoking cloves have to do with the Victorians? I just liked cloves in the late 80’s because they tasted good and you could get really tripped out by spinning around while you inhaled. That was a thing within my friend group. Yes, it is okay to find that funny because it is.
Oh no, not the whole The Doors were the first band to be called ‘gothic rock’ trope. No matter how many times people are corrected about this it always manages to bubble to the surface like toxic goo. Since the goth subculture didn’t exist in the 1960’s how the hell could the band be considered goth? What the reporter back in the 1960’s meant is that The Doors had a sound that could be called foreboding and dark; in other words gothic, because that is what the term means. The term gothic does not always equate the term goth, they can mean totally different things; one is about a subculture, the other is a style of architecture and literature.
I do not know how many more times I have to repeat this but JOY DIVISION IS NOT A GOTH BAND. I even wrote an earlier blog post all about the subject. Ian Curtis killed himself in early 1980, before the subculture was even formed so that fact alone throws the whole thing out the window. Did Joy Division inspire a lot of goth bands during the 80’s? Sure. Were they themselves a goth band? That would be a no, because they influenced tons of bands that were in no way goth like U2. Plus, I think fitting Joy Division into a neat and tidy goth box does the music of the band a disservice. I have always considered The Cure and Siouxsie & The Banshees to both be dark pop bands that some goths happen to like. I saw The Cure live in 1987 headlining a sold out arena show. You weren’t an underground band back then if you sold out a venue like that. Plus, both bands were played on the more mainstream stations back in the 80’s. That is how I first heard The Cure back then; Boys Don’t Cry being played on a regular pop station that my then friends were listening to.
‘ As social media has since taken over culture, and as apps progress and new ones launch, subcultures develop from terminally online lifestyles where the association lines are often blurred. What is or isn’t goth becomes harder to identify. ‘
I actually agree with this bit a little. Social media has taken over culture to some degree, BUT only as much as an individual wants it to. It is still totally possible to have a social life outside of social media, especially since clubs are opening up again and bands are touring. Social media isn’t the be all and end all of the goth, or any other, subculture. Yes, what is and isn’t goth is harder for newer people to identify. I know that the author was trying to do a good thing by sharing all of this, but in the end all articles such as this, that spread misinformation, are doing more harm than good. Especially considering that this article was published over on the website of MTV.
‘ Today, it feels fitting for goth to be passed down through TikTok, just like it was through Tumblr in the 2000s with soft grunge and pastel goth taking over adolescent closets, with looks built from black velvet chokers, flannels, and shorts styled with black nylons. The neo-goth invasion picked up steam in 2020 when Belarus-based band Molchat Doma’s album Etahzi started gaining traction, with users clinging to the track “Sudno” and soundtracking the song by posting pictures from Soviet-era Europe, both romanticizing it and showing the harsh reality of life in the Eastern Bloc. ‘
Oh dear god so much to unpack here. When they mention ‘goth’ being passed down through Tumbler to TikTok all they are meaning is the fashion. Sorry to tell everybody who doesn’t know but ‘grunge’ was pre-packaged rebellion sold to the masses in the 90’s by record execs and MTV. I was there, that is all it was. It had nothing to do with the goth subculture at all. Nothing. I wore ripped shorts with tights underneath them in high school in the late 80’s, and I even had a flannel shirt or two. Both things were worn by people in the metal, punk, and every other alternative subculture at the time. This fashion was only made popular when MTV got a hold of it in the early 90’s and all of a sudden it became popular to look like the unpopular kids. Since the 80’s are still hugely popular teens only liked Molchat Doma because their music sounds like it came out of Stranger Things. It’s just 80’s nostalgia, it doesn’t go any deeper than that.
‘Meanwhile, Los Angeles-based musician and producer Aryan Ashtiani, who goes by the moniker Mareux, became a TikTok sensation overnight with his 2021 cover of The Cure’s “The Perfect Girl,” taking a floaty song originally from their 1987 album Kiss Me, Kiss Me, Kiss Me to gritty electronic depths. Mareux’s synth-heavy reinterpretation sparked a movement on TikTok, with some well-known users posting videos using it as a backing. Mareux was shocked. “There were a few very famous TikTokers who used the song back in summer ’21. This gave it that boost overnight,” he tells MTV News. “From there, it ran rampant on various edits and meme videos and continues to this day.”’
Who? I honestly don’t know who this person is. Does that make me terminally old and not hip? Sure. I just listened to the song and it’s meh? In all honesty it just sounds like an amalgamation of all of the sounds that teens associate with 80’s music all mixed together ready for easy consumption. That is exactly why it got popular with that set of people. Again, it’s just 80’s nostalgia boosted by Stranger Things. Next!
‘Last year, Dua Lipa was photographed by Jordan Hemingway for 032c, styled in a Trad Goth look inspired by Siouxsie Sioux. GothTok celebrity Zander Buel, a.k.a. awfullysinister, posted a video praising her for the ensemble, saying, “I think she looks great! She nailed it.” Buel is another face of the subculture on the internet.’
Again, I have no idea who these two people are, however I remember when this happened. The people who I remember freaking out the most about this were all of the self described ‘goth’ teens, who thought being goth was just about image and that’s it. I have let it be known before but I cannot stand the whole ‘trad goth’ trope. It’s just goth for fucks sake, take the term ‘trad’ and throw it into the waste-bin where it belongs with all of the other ‘goth types’.
‘“When goth goes through this cycle, like it does every so often where it has its ascendance in popularity, it takes a bunch of people with it,” he says. “Some of the people, it spits back out, and those people move on to the next thing. But some people, it takes with them, and then they keep that long-term interest in that label, and they stay within it and they continue to listen to the music, or they go to the clubs and shows, and they discover new bands.”’
This is the only full paragraph in the whole article that I feel is 100% correct. Most of these teens right now are probably going to move on within the next year or two and some will indeed stick with it and really get into the music. This happens in every subculture.
‘Dusty Gannon, of the band Vision Video, has become TikTok’s “Goth Dad,” a comedic character he made up to provide reassurance and levity through his dad jokes, makeup tutorials, and advice, while also promoting his music. Aside from being a digital dad, Gannon has focused energy on explaining goth culture and history, and the importance of maintaining a safe community.’
I am going to be wording my response to this bit very carefully. Gannon has created a gimmick and has made it his profession; he recently quit his job to be a full-time musician. On the one hand I think good for him for carving out his own niche within the goth community, but on the other hand my stranger danger hackles rise up because who financially can take a chance like that right now? I’m not saying he is a bad person at all, just that the way he promotes himself specifically to teens can be easily seen as such by people who are older and who have been around the block a few times. He just ticks off so many boxes that it feels like an act of some kind to me. If you enjoy him and his music more power to you, I just can’t support him. You do you.
‘ Where is the future headed? Bauhaus, one of the original goth bands, released a new single for the first time in 14 years in March, and they are touring again. ‘
…..and the single sounds exactly like the music that they made forty years ago. No real growth.
‘ “Most of the other artists have not embraced TikTok because they think it’s cringe or detracts from their brand. I saw a huge opportunity to connect with fans and create new ones and haven’t looked back,” he says. “In regards to younger people, I think a lot of the stigma towards goth and alternative cultures in the past was linked to homophobia. Now that mainstream culture is more open and accepting, I think a lot of these previously disenfranchised scenes will continue to flourish.” ‘
Homophobia was huge period until fairly recently. If you looked too different in the 80’s/90’s, no matter how you dressed, you were called a faggot. Funnily enough those name calling people got into ‘grunge’ and played at being alternative until that trend died with Cobain. They would drive their cars around blasting Smells Like Teen Spirit while yelling ‘faggot’ at you as they drove by. Anybody who was around back then knows exactly the crowd I am talking about. Mainstream culture has never been as accepting as it appears; scratch the surface and you find out what is really going on.
‘ As the scene grows, the community is full of Baby Bats and Elder Goths ready to share the experience of dancing to darkly dazzling tunes and breathing in fog from the smoke machines. However, that only happens if we continue passing down the music and fashion. TikTok is divisive, but it can be influential, opening doors into new worlds and allowing us to experience other avenues of expression and art. Beyond likes and views, exposure is paramount. ‘
Exposure to actual goth music is indeed important to the continuation of the subculture. However, when the music being shared is not goth by any stretch of the term that is when all of the confusion sets in. It is the reason why a lot of older folks, such as myself, largely stay away from specifically TikTok. TikTok is divisive because of all of this and more. Not to mention the fact that it is a phone app being used by the Chinese government to spy and collect data on people.
‘ “It’s probably going to be a mess for a while,” he continues. “It’s in a transitional stage where it’s becoming very mainstream. People love to fight and argue and gatekeep online, so I can see it staying ugly for a while. Still, that doesn’t mean there won’t be plenty of cool creators and new artists to discover.” ‘
Gatekeep? More like telling the truth. A huge issue right now is people throwing that word around when they are told the truth about goth music and the goth subculture. When they find out that their favourite black metal band is in fact not considered to be a goth band they get all pissed off and throw around the term like rice at a wedding. Goth music has parameters, and without them there wouldn’t be a goth genre of music or even a subculture for that matter. It’s a music based subculture. If it was based on just wearing black, like some younger people and publications still think, then wouldn’t you see priests and nuns dancing around in goth clubs to This Is Heresy by Christian Death?
Obvious venture capitalist is obvious on Killstar’s linkedin page.
EDIT: Since I wrote this I have come to find out that they didn’t buy the company, instead they bought a controlling stake in it. :EDIT When a company is sold they usually publicly announce it and proudly present the new owners to the world. This is mostly done to reassure customers that nothing within the company will change and that things will go on as normal. However, in the case of Killstar they repeatedly refuse to share this information. How do I know this? Because I have been asking them about this all over social media for over a year now and I haven’t had a single response. Go figure.
I think the prime reason why they refuse to even discuss this is because they have something very big to hide. This, of course, has caused me to dig deeper and I am quite proud to say that I have finally figured out the truth! No joke, I am 100% certain that I have found out who bought the company; BERTRAM CAPITAL, a private equity firm.
Here is Tom again on the Bertram Capital linkedin page.
What is a private equity firm, and why did they not share this information with the public? Per Wikipedia: ‘Private-equity firms, with their investors, will acquire a controlling or substantial minority position in a company and then look to maximize the value of that investment.’ In other words Bertram Capital bought Killstar to milk the brand and to make a lot of money for their investors. That’s it. They know that if this information is brought forward that the brand won’t be seen as ‘alternative’ and will lose credibility.
The results of all of this are very apparent through the recent actions of Killstar itself; very frequent new ‘drops’, expensive prices, and the low quality of the merchandise. However, it seems like things may not be working out well for them since they are having constant sales. They lost their core customers and are scrambling to try to get them back through all of the discounting. These customers are not being lured back because they see how bad the quality of the clothing has gotten and don’t want to waste their money. It’s an endless circle of badly made ‘drops’ and the sales that automatically follow them. This practice, by the way, is borderline breaking trading standard laws in the UK.
The guy who lead me down the rabbit hole.
How did I find all of this out? By following the trail of somebody who sits on the board of Killstar. They linked themselves on linkedin to Killstar’s page and to Bertram Capital. In other words the link between the two was very obvious and hiding in plain site. Will people stop buying from them once they find out about all of this? I think they will start losing more customers once news of the company’s inauthentic ways spreads far and wide. Others probably won’t give a damn and will buy their goods anyway. Remember, a fool and his money are easily parted.
If any news concerning all of this comes out I will give an update.
Yes, you are reading that price correctly. Notice the missing cone stud on the edge of the lapel?
I have never made it a secret that I have bought some clearance items from Killstar’s website in the past to use in clothing projects. However, the quality of their items has gone totally downhill within the last year. So much so that I can no longer find items on their site that are fit for purpose. Most, if not all, of their clothing items are now made of really cheap looking polyester that looks the same as the crap fabric that Halloween costumes are usually made of. I have said in the past that I don’t care where you get your clothing from, and that still holds true. However, I do not like people being fleeced. If I see something that is really ‘off’ on a dark alternative clothing site I will tell you about it.
The other day I got a Killstar email, and in it included a link to their new drop. I normally don’t click through their emails because I just read them at this point for the entertainment value. However, I saw a green pillow and on a lark I decided to click through. That in turn took me to the ‘new-in’ page so I started scrolling through that trying to find that damn pillow. To my shock and horror the above studded pleather jacket caught my eye; not because of the spike disaster zones located on it, but because it looks cheap as hell. Again, something that you would find in the ‘punk/goth’ section of a Spirit Halloween store.
The older Killstar pleather jacket that I own. I did the painting and studding.
I have an older pleather jacket by them that is thick and of a pretty good quality, so I am not totally against pleather. This jacket is an entirely different story. First off is the damn price; they are charging £299.99 for this badly made excuse for a pleather jacket. Yep, that much. The pleather material looks very thin and very cheap and it’s easy to tell that because of the way it doesn’t flatter the model at all. It hangs on her all wrong and she looks awkward as hell in it. If a model can’t make it work the chances of you making it work are about zero. It will look good on nobody.
This next part really cracked me up. As I stated right below the photo one of the cone studs is missing off of the edge of the lapel. It looks like a plastic screw, whose cone snapped off…and they didn’t even notice. Using plastic screws instead of metal ones on those cone studs? They will probably easily snap off if you accidentality brush up against anything. Even worse than that is that the lapels and larger areas of cones on the arms are from rolls of pre-studded pleather. I have seen such pre-studded pleather material online before so this isn’t totally shocking, but the pure audacity to charge that much for a jacket that wasn’t even completely hand studded is really outrageous to say the least. Nevermind the fact that they are claiming they are metal studs, when it fact the screws are plastic. Are the cones plastic also? I honestly can’t tell. Also, the lapels don’t even have snaps on them to hold them down against the jacket. I’m guessing because of the pre-studded material being used. It’s just generally constructed very badly and it shows.
As of me writing this they are having a 30% off sale on everything on the site, including their new items. That brings down the jacket to just over £200, which is still very overpriced. Killstar seems to be in financial trouble because of the constant sales they have been having. Not a week goes by without some sort of deep discount. This is not the sign of a company that is doing financially well. The venture capitalists who bought it a few years ago keep cranking out new ‘drops’, and have made the brand into a fast fashion label.
If you read this blog you know that I do a lot of DIY projects that involve studding. You can do it too! Honest! I believe in you! If you have to buy a pre-studded jacket please buy one from an independent creator on Etsy, because you deserve better quality than what Killstar is trying to sell you.
