I received this book a few days before it was released because of me living in the middle of nowhere, but I only started reading it a few days ago due to having shingles on my head. If you don’t know what shingles are it is a virus that you get from previously having caught chicken pox. There is no rhyme or reason as to why the virus reactivates and it is very, very painful. I’m doing much better now, but I couldn’t read for about a week due to some of the sores being on the side of my head where my glasses hit. I felt like a victim of consumption because it made me look really pale and sickly. You have to look on the bright side of things sometimes.
Anyways! This is quite different from the new John Robb book The Art Of Darkness because it has footnote references listed in the back. Personally, that doesn’t make a difference to me but I know that some people are really sticklers for such things. I am about 75% through it so far and I am having some mixed feelings about it. I am in no way saying that it is bad, because it is not. However, the way she goes about explaining things without connecting the information to the actual subculture can be a bit confusing at times. Since I am older and have been in the subculture for a few decades I know what these connections are, but anybody new reading it is going to be wondering why some of the bands are mentioned since they have no obvious connections to the subculture.
Take Lydia Lunch for example, because she is mentioned heavily in it. I have always known who she is because the alternative clubs I went to over thirty years ago used to play some footage of her, and there was a lot of talk back then about her having made a porn film with Henry Rollins in which he fists her. To this day I have no idea if that porno was real or something totally made up because it’s not something that interests me. Because of all of this I have always associated her with the punk subculture, but I can see the connection to goth since her art went down a dark path.
All in all I think it is a worthwhile book to read because there is some information in it that I have never read in other books about the subculture. Its only weakness, as I have mentioned, is the whole connecting the dots issue. Older people will get it, but some newer people will probably be left a little confused.
I used to DJ goth-rock, deathrock and punk music over twenty years ago. It was at the height of when synthpop and EBM music took over goth clubs so it was a pretty dire time to be into goth-rock or deathrock. In fact I was one of the few DJs in the areas that I lived that spun the deathrock revival music that was appearing during that time. So, needless to say, I own a lot of goth music from the 80’s and 90’s. Including tons of compilations. During the 90’s there were a lot of them and many were quite good.
So, I will be spending the next few days uploading all of them to my new laptop. Technology is both a curse and a blessing.
How did I get my hands on this early? Again, Amazon delivered a new release to me a little early. Not a complaint, just an observation. There is an upside to living in the middle of nowhere.
Again, I am just going to give you my feelings on listening to this the first time rather than go in depth on every song. There are people really good at giving flowerly descriptions of songs…and I am not one of them!
First off I would like to say how much I love the instrumentation on this album. You have fast punk guitar, spooky keyboards and even horns! Phantasmagoria, Everything and Grave Disorder are all represented within these songs with some added psychedelic type guitar work. These songs actually remind me of the band Vanilla Fudge, which can only be a good thing. If you like a more ‘rocking’ Damned then this is the album for you!
This is a very political album which is so awesome! The Damned have never been ones to shy away from speaking out against bullshit and they do it here in spades. My favourite song so far is Follow Me, a little ditty about how shallow and fake internet influencers can be. Some ‘goth’ influencers are probably going to feel called out by it; which can only be a good thing of course.
Well, first listen and I really, really like this album! The title of the album is a very apt name for it; lots of psychedelic keyboard and guitar work. If you are new to The Damned this would be an excellent jumping in point, and if you are an older fan this album will make you want to boogie: From Your Lips made me want to uber-goth dance!
Killing Joke is back with a very cool politically driven song and video. It is very good and if this is a preview as to what their new album is going to sound like then we are all in for a treat. It hearkens back to their punk roots which is very exciting!
This coming Record Store Day is chock full of cool releases. The only record store where I live has closed so I will have to find them online. Which itself is not a big deal because there are tons of options on Discogs when it comes to purchasing them. If you have never been on Discogs it is a very cool website in which people sell physical copies of music. If you are a collector of physical media it is a very helpful site and you can get some good deals on there.
These records are the ones that I will personally be purchasing. I am not independently wealthy so I am going to be buying them over the course of a few weeks and not all on the same day.
A Flock Of Seagulls – Rare Birds B-Sides And Rarities
This one is an obvious purchase for me because I love the hell out of A Flock Of Seagulls. Anything they put out I purchase. It’s like I have been trained as a Pavlov dog when it comes to this band. Since I have most, if not all, of their 12″ singles I more than likely own the B sides already but I am intrigued as to what the rarities will be. They are perhaps the most underappreciated band to come out of the 80’s. Unlike a lot of other 80’s era bands their music doesn’t sound dated.
Donna Summer – Hot Summer Nights
This is the 40th anniversary of the album and I am excited as hell about it because I love disco and Donna Summer. I grew up in the 70’s/80’s so her music was always around and being played. She had a really extraordinary voice and sang with a lot of soul. Great lady and I can’t wait to listen to this.
Missing Persons – Live in New York 1981
This is a double album reissue. Love them and don’t have this album so this one is a no brainer.
Nena – 99 Luft Ballons 12″
I remember taping this song when it came out and listening to the lyrics over and over again to figure them out. Growing up towards the end of the Cold War, and with the threat of nuclear annihilation constantly in the background, this song will always mean a lot to me. This is a 40th anniversary reissue.
Romeo Void – Live From Mabuhay Gardens November 14th 1980
Romeo Void was an early new wave/post-punk band that came out of the San Francisco Bay Area. Since I am from that area I used to hear some of their songs on the radio all of the time. I feel like I am duty bound to get this. Crossing my fingers for some live saxophone action.
Stevie Nicks – Bella Donna Live 1981
I have always loved Stevie’s music. Did you know that Prince performed the keyboards in her song Stand Back? I know that it isn’t on this album but I think its a cool factoid. I need to own some of her vinyl so this is where I am going to start.
Tears For Fears – Saturnine Martial & Lunatic
Tears For Fears were one of my favourite bands when I was a teen in the 80’s. This is a collection of their B Sides and other rarities from their years with Mercury. This is, yet again, a no brainer for me.
U2 – Two Hearts Beat As One/Sunday Bloody Sunday 40th Anniversary Edition
I make it no secret on here that I love early U2. This has the two original songs on one side and two new versions of them on the other. Only getting this because of the old songs being front and center on this release.
Various Artists – Monsters, Vampires, Voodoos & Spooks
I’m a huge fan of horror punk and spooky Halloween themed songs so this is meant for me. I feel seen.
The Virgin Prunes – The Debut EPs
Love The Virgin Prunes and I plan on buying all of their reissues as they come out.
Some people are probably wondering why I am not going to be buying the Cure and Siouxsie & The Banshees reissues. Truthfully? I am not a huge fan of either band. I don’t hate them or anything like that, it’s just that I don’t collect their music. Remember to always buy music that you like, not what others say that you have to buy. If you don’t like any of the releases I have mentioned that’s fine; you do you.
Infamous 1940’s photo of Nazis marching through the town in which I now live.
I have decided to write this because I think it is important to lay out exactly why I have left a subculture that I have been a member of for over thirty years. This will be a warning to those who want to enter the subculture; the truth as to what is going on within it right now. I know I am not alone in this and that there are others who feel that the subculture is heading down a road in which there is no return; protecting those who have an ideology that wishes harm onto others within the subculture.
First I am going to give a history lesson as to what I went through and witnessed back in the late 80’s and the early 90’s as to show exactly where I am coming from. Back then I lived in the San Francisco East Bay and there was a sizeable and well known group of neo-Nazis called the WAR (white aryan resistance) skinheads. Led, and created, on the US West Coast by the now dead Tom Metzger their goal was to push their way into punk spaces and take them over. As you can imagine this did not go well for the WAR skins because the punks and SHARPS(skinheads against racial prejudice) fought them every step of the way and eventually drove them completely into extinction. However, there were some spaces that they were more successful, and that would be the alternative clubs in which the emerging goth scene morphed out of.
I am on the left in this photo that was taken at the alternative club The Twilight Zone in early 1991.
The Twilight Zone was an all ages alternative club in Alameda in the San Francisco East Bay and it ran from around 1987 to late 1992. Unfortunately it had a bit of a WAR skin problem. I was tiny back then and weighed 110 lbs soaking wet and I had a good sense as to what I should and shouldn’t do in such circumstances. You have got to understand just how violent the WAR skins were; they had actually killed people of colour in Portland Oregon and in Olympia Washington. So, they wouldn’t have hesitated to beat the shit out of me if I had confronted them on my own and nobody at that club probably would have stopped them because they simply couldn’t be bothered to do the right thing. Because of all of this I started to stay away from there and attended 924 Gilman, the punk club in Berkeley, instead.
924 Gilman has always been a volunteer run club and the dude who headed it at that time was African American. I, and others, told him what was going on at The Twilight Zone and he actually listened to us and took what we said seriously. Everybody at Gilman had experience dealing with the WAR skins. In fact I witnessed the whole club emptying out one time, chasing them down the street and then beating the crap out of them. So, he and some others, showed up one night at The Twilight Zone and just sat there as a group; watching and waiting. Since there were obviously no cell phones back then I think somebody went to a payphone, called up the WAR skins and told them to not show up that night. In fact the WAR skins never showed up there again because of this show of force. That is all the WAR skins understood, there was no talking to them because it was useless.
So, when I see literal white nationalist sympathizers such as Madi Danger being accepted as a ‘force of good’ within the goth subculture I understandably get upset. We went through this shit over thirty years ago and nothing was learned from it? Nothing was even learned from the whole Sonsombre incident? Some are calling me a hypocrite because I originally had defended Brandon Pybus of Sonsombre. However, the moment all of the evidence against him was brought together in an cohesive manner on video I stopped supporting the band, destroyed all of their merch and I even made a public apology on this blog about it. That is what adults do; apologize when they are wrong. The HUGE difference between the two scenarios is that white nationalist sympathizers, such as Madi Danger, knew exactly what kind of band Burzum was from the very beginning. They didn’t just stumble upon Burzum, they made a concerted effort to listen to them and support them.
The major reason I have decided to leave the subculture is because of all of this. I cannot in good conscience be a member of a subculture that excuses these kind of beliefs away as if they are nothing more than a bothersome mosquito. Anybody with a pair of eyes can see that there has been a HUGE uptick of racist white nationalists entering the subculture lately. Those who choose to ignore it and say nothing are just as horrible in my opinion. There is a saying that is very apt right now. If there are ten people sitting at a table hanging out with a Nazi then there are actually eleven Nazis sitting at that table. You are the company that you keep.
Another reason why I am leaving is because of the do nothing attitude that is very prevalent in the subculture right now when it comes to kicking out rapists, racists and various other pieces of shit. Even though there has been documented proof that bands such as She Wants Revenge and Bella Morte have sexual predator members within them they are still booked for shows and people still pay to see them. Complaints are still being made against people such as DJ Panic. He is allowed to be a booker and promoter of shows in the Washington DC area despite credible allegations of mental abuse, among other things. I had run-ins with that asshole twenty years ago and it fucking sickens me that people still refuse to lift a finger to stop him.
Proof that the goth band Ashes Fallen from Northern California are still supporting Madi Danger, even after being given information that the bitch is a white nationalist sympathizer.
The final reason I am leaving is because of all of those who talk the talk but straight up refuse to walk the walk when their help is needed. I left the Sounds & Shadows community on Facebook the other day because quite frankly I can no longer take the bullshit excuses as to why some people there refuse to lift a finger to challenge the rise of racist white nationalists within the subculture. Afraid that it might hurt the feelings of others? Do you know what? Fuck the feelings of racist white nationalist sympathizers and the people who coddle them. The thing that pushed me over the edge in that community? When one of the people in charge there got pissed off at me for tagging them in a post on my Facebook page all about how the band Ashes Fallen was supporting Madi Danger. There were screenshots and yet I am the bad person for pointing this crap out? How dare I prove my case! How…dare…I? Apparently staying friends with people who have very questionable morals is more important than supporting antifascists. Go figure.
A continuation of that conversation with Ashes Fallen, who claim that they don’t support white nationalism, all while supporting a proven white nationalist sympathizer.
I have MS so my health has actually been negatively affected by the stress of all of this crap going on. My health and life are more important than those of racist white nationalist sympathizers and those protecting them so I am bowing out. The paradox of tolerance states that once the intolerant are tolerated within a group of people the intolerant will quickly take over said group. That is what is happening right now to the subculture. I will still listen to and support certain bands, but I refuse to take an active part in a subculture who thinks so little of protecting its most marginalized members.
Welcome to part four in my series about the very problematic history of Madi Danger’s now defunct goth Discord server. If you have not read 1-3 of this series yet I would suggest doing so because they show a clear pattern of behaviour. Links to those earlier posts will be at the bottom of this article. Again, I am showing these screenshots in the order in which I found them. None of them have been left out. Just a warning, this and the next article in this series are composed of just conversations that took place that prove that what C has been saying is true. Again, there will be racist white nationalist flags planted all over the place
This looks like yet another conversation that has started between C and Madi, one of which that C had previously talked about in their story. Yet again C tries to explain why they, and others, do not feel safe in the community because of J’s lack of action against G. J apparently made some excuses such as ‘I don’t know anything about you’ trope. Why the hell does J even need to know the background of anybody; if the members say that a moderator had repeatedly said and done racist type things to them they should be 100% believed, especially when they have some receipts to prove it. Madi says something that makes absolutely no sense so let us continue on.
That above message that you cannot see the entirety of? It is of G saying that they are not a racist white nationalist. EDIT: Madi has kindly shared all of G’s statement and it is at the bottom of this article. :EDIT That is way too little way to late for C’s comfort and for mine as well. G was asked over, and over, and over again by C if they had racist white nationalism type views and G repeatedly refused to answer. There is no backing up and retroactively saving yourself from this sort of situation. If a leftist, such as myself, was asked if they had racist white nationalistic type views the resounding answer would be a huge no. Also, more than likely, a leftist would explain why racist white nationalism is wrong. Unfortunately, it really feels like we are dealing with people here who reside on the other side of the aisle.
C explains why they do not feel safe in the server; they personally know people who have been doxxed and one that was a victim of a hate crime. C was not being overly sensitive in this situation, they had an absolute right to not feel safe in that community. They were just beginning to make YouTube videos about mainly goth type topics, but C also wanted to include videos about trans issues since they themselves are trans. They had wanted to link it to the server, but because of all of the unanswered questions about racist white nationalism in the community they took it down. I do not blame them one bit.
C’s paragraph continues here; their explanation of why they do not feel safe because of all of the red flags that have been planted throughout this entire ordeal. Again, C deserves a lot of praise in this situation because they will not lie down and take this crap. Madi Dearest responds by saying that C shouldn’t share any personal information in the community if they do not feel safe. Her excuse? That it is a large server that she keeps open for anybody to find out information about goth. Since she and the other moderators refused to make rules against bigotry you can easily come up with your own concludion. As I have stated previously in this series there has been a long held tradition in both the punk and goth communities of punching racist white nationalists and banning them from both online and ‘real world’ spaces. From what I witnessed over thirty years ago the punks, and Sharps(skinheads against racial prejudice), did a lot of the heavy lifting, but since that time the goth community has stepped forward and has been more actively involved in pushing racist white nationalists out. As a reminder J, Madi’s now husband, had previously stated that politics don’t belong in the goth subculture and that their inclusion would ruin the ‘scene’. Spoken just like somebody who doesn’t know what the hell they are talking about. If Madi is going to put herself forward as some sort of fountain of knowledge about the goth subculture she, and those mods, should actually learn about the truth of the subculture instead of making shit up as they go along. Again, I find all of this disturbing as hell since her audience tends to skew younger. People are putting their trust in the hands of others who in no way deserve it.
C then starts talking about their experience of also being into punk music and being a member of the punk community. This gets me teary because I have also always loved punk music along with goth music. Over thirty years ago I would go to punk shows and alternative clubs during the same week. I was not alone because a good amount of people back then got into what would become the goth subculture in the San Francisco Bay Area through also liking punk music. Just like C I learned all about racist dog-whistles and crypto-fascists through listening to bands like the Dead Kennedys and from attending shows. C is right, all of the behaviours that Madi, her husband, and those two other moderators are showing would not be tolerated in the punk community. In fact there would be a concerted effort to push them out, I guarantee it. By the way Madi claims to love 70’s-80’s punk music and she has even made a Spotify playlist including songs from the Dead Kennedys and the Subhumans, which tells me that she is not actually ‘listening ‘ to the music. This type of thing happens pretty frequently. It’s like when right wing morons claiming that punk music has become too ‘woke’ and that politics don’t belong in punk. Gee…that sounds familiar doesn’t it?
C goes on about the paradox of intolerance; that if a group of people accept everybody, including the intolerant, eventually the group will be destroyed and taken over by the intolerant. Do you want people such as Madi and her husband holding power in alternative subcultures and destroying them from the inside out? I sure as hell don’t, and they shouldn’t be allowed to freely roam online teaching baby bats what their idea of the goth subculture is all about. All of the frippery and teased hair in the world can’t hide the truth of her actions, and inactions, when it comes to all of this. C also mentions the old saying that if eleven people sit down at a table with one Nazi then there are twelve Nazis. You are the company you keep.
C again tells Madi that all they want is a place to talk about goth without having to worry about being targeted for abuse by people who are anti-trans. Their concern is totally understandable and if I were in their shoes I would feel the same way. I would never be comfortable sharing what I love if I had to worry about literal racist white nationalists wanting to hurt me. Madi, G chose not to answer that very simple question an endless amount of times. Yet you want C to feel safe now just because G finally says that they are antifascist? Seriously? Is she just that dense to think that a statement that came too little too late would just solve everything?
EDIT: That was going to be the end of the article but Madi responded with some screenshots that I supposedly purposely skipped using. In reality I had used the first photo she shared in my first article already and I did not have access to the other two because they were not in the info dump. So I will share those two with you and give my opinion as to the contents of them.
I think the person responding to G is Z from the second article but I am not sure. Z doesn’t find Varg Vikernes funny and neither do I. Varg is a vile murdering racist piece of shit that should be taken seriously and not laughed at. Condemning racists such as Varg should be the priority, rather than laughing about him. Again, how are people in a goth server supposed to know about a metal meme? Laughing about Varg like he is a drunk uncle, rather than condemning him, throws up yet another flag for me. Sorry not sorry
What the hell has G actually explained? As you have seen from the other screenshots in these articles G always evaded the questions thrown at them and repeatedly refused to answer the question as to whether or not they held racist white nationalistic views. Plus, on top of all of that G had been accused by multiple people of deleting talk of racism on the server. Oh, and G and the other mods didn’t think that a rule against bigotry would be be a good idea. Do you know who I am going to believe after reading this entire sorry mess? Not him.
That is the end of part four. Part five will be up on this blog on Tuesday the 24th and it will be the last article in this series. Thank you for reading!
Hello, welcome back to my series of articles about the troubled history of Madi Danger’s goth Discord server. If you are new here the first article in this series can be found HERE. I was so overwhelmed with all of the information that I found regarding this that I didn’t really get into the reason why she originally piqued my interest. What did she do to get my knickers in such a twist? The fact that she pretty much came out of nowhere and started making misinformed videos about the goth subculture in general; she was presenting herself as some sort of self appointed expert about the subculture. Yet apparently nobody really knew who she was before she arrived. She is basically a goth grifter, and you can read more of my assessment right HERE. All of the screenshots below are a continuation of the ones found in my last article. Again, they are in the order in which I found them.
Your political beliefs have nothing to do with the server or why you are there? Why is G so damn adamant as to why he doesn’t want to answer a simple question? Could it be because he has some racist white nationalist views? There is no other logical reason for it. Seriously. This is a giant red flag, that if it was planted on the moon you would be able to see it without a telescope. C is absolutely in the right here and they fully deserve to know if that space contains people with racist white nationalist views. They don’t want to be victimized because those type of assholes love to bully, harass and threaten people like them. Yeah dude, it is Madi’s server and your refusal to answer a basic question about your beliefs when it comes to racist white supremacist ideology speaks volumes about who you are in my honest opinion.
Holy shit this asshole! It’s really obvious that G is still not wiling to answer that same simple question, and then he quips about not recruiting for a ‘Aryan Super Soldier program’? Again, C asks G if he is a Nazi sympathizer. I applaud C for taking a stand against all of this and for having the courage to keep fighting the good fight. Jello Biafra would be proud of them.
It all moves to the music section, in which both moderators G and R try to shut down C’s concern as to how the Discord channel is run. As a person who used to be a mod for the largest punk community on Facebook I have to say that the power-tripping that these moderators are displaying is a bit over the top. Instead of answering simple questions they choose to just shut down conversations. As a moderator I would never dismiss somebody’s concerns, because if they are getting to the point of complaining about something then it is important to them. It wouldn’t be fair for me to do nothing about it. Where there is smoke there is usually a fire of some sort, so it is always important to look into it.
Back to the general channel we go! How the hell does asking a moderator a simple question about their beliefs, when it comes to racist white nationalism, become a problem on an all ages server? Deflection is never a good look, just answer the damn question! C answers back that they have been getting messages from others in the server who are also concerned and feeling uncomfortable. I don’t blame them because even seven months after the fact I am feeling uncomfortable as hell reading G’s dismissive comments.
Fucking hell! Isn’t R just a pleasant person; telling C to leave if they feel uncomfortable instead of tackling the issues going on. Who knew that asking somebody about their political beliefs would be controversial? R and G can dance around the question all they want, but it’s as if they have opened a red flag factory and are planting them all over that server.
C goes to town and makes perfect sense. How the hell is a marginalized person supposed to feel safe in an online community when the moderators refuse to answer a very simple and serious question?
C goes on to describe the entire situation that has been allowed to take place on the server. Then one of Madi’s deluded fans tries to deflect by saying that there are a lot of Nazi punk bands. Said by a person who obviously doesn’t have a clue about the punk subculture and its history of not tolerating right winged ideologies. C sets them straight, and of course they are correct.
This new participant, let’s call them Z, is absolutely correct in their sentiment because this is indeed how racist white nationalists act. They wiggle their way into subcultures, dress like members of it and then when they feel safe and protected they start using dog whistles to test out the waters. If nobody confronts them they then think that they can get away with anything. Most of the time they are easy to spot, and if you have been around for decades in different subcultures, like I have, you will see this sort of thing happen time and time again. It is why there has always been a tradition of beating the crap out of them when they are found. I actually witnessed this first hand over thirty years ago at the punk club 924 Gilman in Berkeley. A group of WAR(white aryan resistance) skins tried to push their way into Gilman and the entire club emptied and gave chase to them down the street. I wanted to join in but the volunteer who used to help run the club held me back because they said I could get killed. My fellow punks beat the shit out of them and they didn’t come back. Hooray!
I feel Z’s frustration when it comes to this entire situation. I too am tired of seeing this kind of crap happening yet again. They even suggest starting another Discord channel and inviting Madi to it so that they can discuss this situation with her away from the moderators. Making jokes about literal Nazi sympathizers in this kind of situation is indeed not funny and it raises yet more red flags.
Z again makes excellent points. Their assessment of G at the end is a logical one to make given the circumstances.
A history lesson by Z about why fascists have always managed to squirm their way into both the industrial and goth subcultures. It’s because some people in the subcultures have always adopted historically fascist looking fashion. The actual fascists see this and think that their views will be accepted into the subcultures. This is the main reason why I never got into that kind of fashion, because it just looks way too close to Nazi uniforms for my comfort.
This is the continuation of that same paragraph. Z is right in saying that the original reason why the early punks adopted Nazi imagery was to piss of their parents and the general public who all worshipped the Allied victory in WW2. They were basically being edgelords, and Siouxsie has apologized for her own part in it. Real actual fascists from metal, punk and other subcultures come into the goth community because they think that historically goths accept everybody and are not political.
Yet another continuation of the paragraph that Z wrote. They go into how online goth communities don’t push back against fascism hard enough, which leaves an opening for the fascists to sneak in under the guise of ‘acceptance’. No, the goth community is not obliged to accept fascists into the community because such people should by be punched. Remember it is a time honoured tradition.
A third moderator, who we will call J, enters the fray. C thinks this is Madi’s now husband, BUT they also hinted that they think this may actually be Madi herself. I have no idea either way so jump to your own conclusions when it comes to this.
After this series of articles about what happened seven months ago I was going to take a peak at the current state of her goth Discord channel, but I learned from a friend that she took the server down sometime between then and now. I guess she thought that people would forget what happened or something equivalent to that? I have no clue.
So this will be the end of the second part of my series. The next article, part three, will be published on Friday the 20th. Thank you for reading!
I just want to start out by saying that all of the info in this article was gathered by reading a very long PUBLIC post that somebody made of this entire situation seven months ago. They also included some screen shots to prove their side of the story. So, none of this was created out of thin air. Why didn’t it gain traction? Because the person in question claims that they were hounded online by Madi, her husband, her fans and their friends. However, they kept their post up in the hopes that others would see it. This is going to be a long and detailed post so get your seatbelts on; it’s going to be a very bumpy ride. I will be sharing photos and commenting under each one. By the way they are all in order of appearance, nothing is left out.
The fact that Madi’s friend G, who is one of the mods running the server, says that they are more comfortable around Norwegian black metal musicians really, really raises a red flag. The person above is correct in saying that the black metal genre, and specifically the Norwegian variety, has a history of racism and white supremacy. Varg Vikernes is a racist murdering piece of shit, and to think otherwise is basically condoning his actions and white supremacist beliefs. This isn’t rocket science.
So, the poster feels uncomfortable about all of this because they are a person who is regularly marginalized. They ask G what they meant, and they don’t really get a straight answer. Not a great look at all. Personally, I probably would have lost it by this time and would have just told all of them to go fuck themselves. They are showing extreme restraint and I commend them for that.
They tried to get a straight answer from G, but their question was still ignored. They even asked G’s partner and fellow moderator, R, and they also didn’t give a straight answer. They also talk about how a post in the discord that was deleted for no reason by G. What was the subject? It was about how Nazi clothing has no place in the goth and industrial subcultures. Why was it deleted? Because apparently it was off subject, even though it is a goth discord. Yes, you read that correctly. There is also an accusation about a Jewish member being called a slur by G, however there is no screenshot of that so it cannot be confirmed.
Above is G. Gee I wonder if he has racist white nationalist sympathies? We are next going to go straight into screenshots of all of the messages talked about above, because he starts talking about Madi next in his tale and all of that needs to be seen together on its own in a separate dedicated post(s). All of these will be in order so no claims of discarding certain messages can be made. This is pretty much a huge information dump and the reason why I am splitting this article into different parts.
The conversation starts with the poster, let’s just call them C, answering a question posed by G. There is some regular banter with C just giving their opinion about some problematic Soundcloud rappers.
This is where G openly states that he would feel more comfortable around Norwegian black metal musicians. As stated earlier in this article Norwegian black metal has a reputation for harbouring racist white nationalist musicians. Are all Norwegian black metal musicians racist white nationalists? Of course not, however there is something about that subculture that attracts those type of people. This raised a huge red flag for C, and when I personally read that the hairs on the back of my neck stood up and I immediately thought about when Brandon Pybus of Sonsombre was found out to be a member of a racist neo-Confederate organization.
That bottom comment that G makes about Varg being a ‘wild and crazy guy’ just really irks the hell out of me. No, you know what Varg is? A murdering racist white nationalistic piece of shit who deserves to drown in his own filth. That statement of his just hoists that red flag all the way up the flagpole for me.
His statement is cut off but C basically just told G that Norwegian black metal has racist white nationalist issues. In response G says that they aren’t going to talk about that there. Gives no reason, just tries to shut down the conversation. They could have said something like ‘white nationalists in the Norwegian black metal scene suck and I don’t agree with their views at all’ and that would have just ended the entire conversation. However, he chose not to do that. Hmmmm…..I wonder why?
Oh shit!!!! G just up and says ‘I don’t support politics on either side in the scene’. That ‘encouraging violence in any scene is intolerable’ is his reasoning and I am just so awed by this lack of self awareness on display here. C comments that they think that one side is definitely worse, and I agree. Racist white nationalists suck and should be punched, because that is a time honoured tradition in the punk and goth subcultures. Something that goes back all the way to the 1970’s. The simple fact that G doesn’t know or acknowledge this is sketchy as hell. G then says that he has to keep the place ‘safe for everyone’. Safe for who? Racist white nationalists?
C makes it clear that they want just a straight answer, and G fobs them off yet again. Being brave as hell C announces that they are going to have to leave the server if there are any white nationalists or people with Nazi beliefs. Then yet again they tell G that they don’t understand the status quote that G keeps trying to say is his opinion on white nationalism. G’s response to all of this just takes the cake. In other words G just doesn’t give a shit. What he really fails to grasp is that the goth subculture historically has always been left winged and not tolerant of right wing racist white nationalist bullshit. Remember folks, this is supposed to be a goth Discord community, not anything having to do with metal. Yet the moderator seemingly knows nothing about the history of the goth subculture. Doesn’t that sound familiar?
I can just feel C’s frustration at not getting a straight answer right now. At any point during this entire ordeal G could have just stepped up and said what they believed in, but nope they take the cowardly way out and say yet again that they don’t like letting politics ‘fuel’ their friendships or communities. Then G has the fucking audacity to respond flippantly when C asks him what his status means politically. The cold hard truth of this is G is a moderator of Madi’s dedicated goth Discord server, so this does not reflect well on her at all. Seriously.
C again asks for an answer to their question. What happens? G then claims, in all of his stupidity, that ‘finding’ politics in the goth subculture would ruin the scene because they assume that there aren’t any politics in the subculture at all. Let’s just take a minute to digest that before we go on. Ready? G obviously does not know crap about the goth subculture at all, because if he did they wouldn’t say something so amazingly ignorant. Why the hell is somebody who knows so little about the subculture put as a moderator of a Discord server that is supposed to be a resource for information about the goth subculture? Madi is putting herself out there as some sort of fount of knowledge about the goth subculture and this is what she comes up with? Oh hell to the no. The goth subculture has always been left leaning and political. Did Siouxsie wear stupid Nazi shit over 40 years ago? Yes, and she apologized for it because she realized how wrong she had been. Since the full formation of the goth subculture in the early 80’s musicians who espouse racist white nationalistic views are condemned by the majority and pushed away when found out. There are, of course, dumb racist idiots who will support such musicians but they are definitely in the minority, especially right now. If anything the subculture has grown even more political within the last ten years, which can only be a good thing.
Don’t look for trouble where there isn’t any? You know what I find troublesome? When somebody refuses to clearly state what their stance is on racist white nationalistic beliefs.
Dude, you literally told C that your political stance on racist white nationalism was in your profile. How the hell is somebody on a GOTH Discord server supposed to know that the quote you pointed them to is based on a METAL meme? Please don’t think that I have anything against metal music as a whole. In fact Danzig is one of my favourite bands and I saw the original line-up live back in 1992. So if anybody wants to claim that I know nothing about metal music they can full on kiss my ass. In fact I have been writing this post with the help of the first four Danzig albums. Oh, and I almost forgot. On top of all of that I was going to the punk club 924 Gilman in Berkeley over 30 years ago so I in turn know quite a bit about punk music. I am a triple threat; a woman who knows a lot about both goth and punk music while having a decent understanding of metal music. I hope that makes these moderators, and Madi, uncomfortable. C, yet again, asks for clarification which should earn them some sort of trophy for tenacity at this point.
In comes G’s partner R to the rescue! I’m sure they will have a rational explanation for all of this since R is G’s significant other. So asking whether or not a moderator has racist white nationalistic views isn’t goth? Oh, I forgot. We are supposed to be really meek and roll over and bark at your command because the goth subculture is filled with people with no political beliefs. Right? Fuck right off with that nonsense. I have absolutely no pity for people who are this damn ignorant. So G is stating that C is looking for ‘problems’ for asking the same damn simple question over and over again? None of this looks good for either of the moderators or for Madi herself, since she presents herself as knowledgable about the goth subculture and this is her dedicated goth Discord server.
Part two in this series will be up on Wednesday the 18th. I was not kidding when I said this is an info dump.
EDIT: It is now 84 songs with no repeated bands. I hate the heck out of Spotify, and don’t use it, but I have decided to start creating a playlist based on the music that I heard in alternative clubs in 88-92. It is a work in progress so this isn’t its final form. During those four years I went clubbing on a pretty regular basis, even multiple times a week. So, these are actual songs that were played back then not some fever dream of somebody who wishes they lived back then. Yes, rap/hip-hop songs were played at all of the alternative clubs in the San Francisco Bay Area back then, and I had a whole lot of fun dancing to them! From what I understand this was not as common in other areas of the US, so this list only represents what I experienced and is not indicative of what happened elsewhere.
Hope you have fun listening to this and discover songs that are new to you.
