My Dystopian Life

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Category: Goth Fashion (Page 3 of 6)

Madi Danger’s Goth Discord History Raises Some Red Flags/Part 3

January 20, 2023 / / 2 Comments
I stand with MDC

Welcome back! This is the third article in my series all about the problematic history of Madi Danger’s now taken down goth Discord server. I would suggest getting caught up before diving into this one, and the links for those first two parts are at the end of this article. Mainly because everything is interconnected and it shows a pattern of behaviour. First we are going to go over the rest of C’s statement about the situation, which we began in the first article. Afterwards the screenshots proving the accusations will be shared. As always I will make comments under each photo.

In the continuation of their explanation of what occurred C once again gets into G and R actively shutting down any conversation about what happened. Just the fact that the two mods, G and R, are deleting any mention of what happened raises yet more big huge red flags. They actively wanted to hide any mention of the community’s concerns over the simple unanswered question as to whether or not they had racist white nationalist beliefs. C mentions that they brought all of these concerns to Madi but that she was dismissive. Do you know what that tells me? That she perhaps also wouldn’t answer that question truthfully if asked and that is very concerning considering that teens are beginning to flock to her for information about the goth subculture. Turns out that the third mod, whom we named J in the last article, is definitely her now husband. I assume that he was sent by Madi into the community to deal with all of the complaints since she couldn’t be bothered. After C and others shared screenshots of what happened with him he claimed that there was not enough evidence to take any sort of action against G, even though some of them made claims that G had been openly racist in the past on the server. C wasn’t able to save the conversation that happened between them and Madi, BUT they did save all of the conversations about this that they had with J.

J wanted to ‘compromise’ about it but every suggestion that C and others made fell on deaf ears. J said that kicking G out of the group was off that table and that taking away his mod duties was also not going to happen. C and others suggested a rule against bigotry but J deemed that too complicated and unenforceable. That very large online punk community that I used to be a mod for had that kind of rule and it was very easy for me to enforce. Any mention of racism in a post, be it a band such as Skrewdriver or far right wing sentiments in general, I would instantly delete. How the hell is that ‘difficult’ to enforce, unless you want to pander to literal racist white nationalists? That isn’t even jumping to a conclusion, that is just a logical thought process in affect. I honestly don’t know how anybody could dismiss all of this crap and only tell G to give people a warning first before banning them. Oh, did I forget to mention that G was banning people left and right over all of this? The huge cherry on top of this shit filled sundae is the fact that when C told Madi their concerns for a second time she said that she stood by her now husband. She then proceeded to tell C that she had asked G if he had racist white supremacist beliefs and that he had told her no. She then shared a sceenshot as proof. Madi stated that since C and the others now had their answer that they should be satisfied. OH HELL TO THE NO! Madi thinks that people are actually going to believe that asshole after he refused to answer the question for so long? Others then told C that she had a sketchy past history; including defending a friend who was caught wearing a Burzum shirt online. That is Varg Vikernes’ racist white nationalist band, in case you didn’t know or forgot. There are no screenshots from those people, but considering how far down the racist white nationalist rabbit hole we have been venturing so far it is not a very hard thing to believe. Oh, and believe me…..it gets much worse from here on out.

Next, C explains how Madi and her husband harassed them across several different social media platforms. C says that they posted over on their Instagram account, warning baby bats not to follow or trust her. She then sent C a bunch of different messages accusing them of calling her a racist, which he actually never did. If you have noticed I have also never called her a racist. So, if she tells people that I have she is grasping at straws and relevancy. A few days after that C commented to somebody not to support her after seeing a post in their timeline of her. Somebody told Madi and J, her husband, and they went after C yet again accusing them of slander and calling them a liar. C couldn’t save J’s messages because of being blocked right afterwards, but C got to save the ones from Madi Dearest.

So, C says that J stalked their Twitter posts. C had blocked Madi so they are assuming that J went spying on them for her, to see if C was still talking about the incidents that took place. C then states that J responded to a tweet of theirs with a screenshot showing C’s ‘uncensored discord name and image’. They then had to change that info because they did not want Madi’s stans stalking and threatening them. There isn’t a screen shot of this, but judging from all of the other crap we have seen so far this really isn’t outside the realm of possibility.

Now that we have read C’s entire story we are going to move onto the screenshots. Some of them may distress you because there are racist white nationalistic flags planted all over them. When I first read them I thought back to the time in which I saw the whole inside of the punk club 924 Gilman empty and chase a bunch of WAR(white aryan resistance) skins down the street to beat the crap out of them. White suprematists come in many forms besides Nazi skinheads; they are your neighbours, office co-workers and some are even people who attend goth clubs.

We are starting right where we left off, these screenshots are a continuation of the ones in PART 2. After having no success when trying to appeal to J about why they felt unsafe C then turns to Madi hoping that she can help. C mentions that several of them think that G is a crypto-fascist. I am guessing that a lot of people reading this are on the same page as them. Then C mentions that another member claims that their posts about racism in the scene were deleted by G. Yet again, gee I wonder why?

C offers to send somebody’s message as proof of what happened. Apparently C had been banned from the group, along with some others, by G. Madi then unbans C. This next part really pisses me off. Madi telling somebody to ‘keep cool’ in this situation? The fact that C still trusts her at this point really breaks my heart. Trust me, it gets worse.

C then contacts Madi again. They urge her to look at what is happening in the server because G is taking anything down that pertains to the situation at hand; that some people in the server think that G is a crypto-fascist. Just the fact that they have to bring this up to her yet again speaks volumes doesn’t it? What it tells me is that Madi is not concerned at all about it and doesn’t really give a shit, yet again.

C then messages Madi again about how they think that it is a bad idea for G and R to both be mods of the group together because they are partners. R keeps apparently shielding G from members complaining about him and that this is causing a lot of drama to occur. Personally, I think the only solution to this was something that Madi was not willing to do; kick both G and R out of the community. Golly gee, I wonder why she refuses to do this?

Dude, you don’t have to say you’re sorry for bothering her at this point. I love how C just won’t drop it. If I was feeling unsafe in an online community I would do the same. However, I would have left ages ago because I am jaded and have seen how this kind of crap plays out in person and online over and over and over again. Don’t think you are witnessing some type of brand new phenomenon that has never happened in the goth subculture before. Racist white nationalists have been trying to infiltrate both the goth and punk scenes from the very beginning, with varying degrees of success.

Madi has the audacity to say that she doesn’t see any issues that would make people feel uncomfortable? Um…..how about those mods who refuse to answer that simple timeless question as to what their political views are when it comes to racist white nationalism?

C tells Madi the names of the other members who have had bad encounters with G. Why the fuck is all of this even happening? The first instance of racism in that community should have been met with an insta-ban, even if they were a moderator. The very fact that the act of banning G was completely off the table, before any evidence was even shown, tells the whole story, doesn’t it?

That is it for Part 3. The 4th article in this series all about Madi Danger’s late great goth Discord server will be put up this coming Sunday the 22nd. Thank you for reading!

Part 1

Part 2

Part 4

Madi Danger’s Goth Discord History Raises Some Red Flags/Part 2

January 18, 2023 / / 4 Comments
I stand with Woody Guthrie!

Hello, welcome back to my series of articles about the troubled history of Madi Danger’s goth Discord server. If you are new here the first article in this series can be found HERE. I was so overwhelmed with all of the information that I found regarding this that I didn’t really get into the reason why she originally piqued my interest. What did she do to get my knickers in such a twist? The fact that she pretty much came out of nowhere and started making misinformed videos about the goth subculture in general; she was presenting herself as some sort of self appointed expert about the subculture. Yet apparently nobody really knew who she was before she arrived. She is basically a goth grifter, and you can read more of my assessment right HERE. All of the screenshots below are a continuation of the ones found in my last article. Again, they are in the order in which I found them.

Your political beliefs have nothing to do with the server or why you are there? Why is G so damn adamant as to why he doesn’t want to answer a simple question? Could it be because he has some racist white nationalist views? There is no other logical reason for it. Seriously. This is a giant red flag, that if it was planted on the moon you would be able to see it without a telescope. C is absolutely in the right here and they fully deserve to know if that space contains people with racist white nationalist views. They don’t want to be victimized because those type of assholes love to bully, harass and threaten people like them. Yeah dude, it is Madi’s server and your refusal to answer a basic question about your beliefs when it comes to racist white supremacist ideology speaks volumes about who you are in my honest opinion.

Holy shit this asshole! It’s really obvious that G is still not wiling to answer that same simple question, and then he quips about not recruiting for a ‘Aryan Super Soldier program’? Again, C asks G if he is a Nazi sympathizer. I applaud C for taking a stand against all of this and for having the courage to keep fighting the good fight. Jello Biafra would be proud of them.

It all moves to the music section, in which both moderators G and R try to shut down C’s concern as to how the Discord channel is run. As a person who used to be a mod for the largest punk community on Facebook I have to say that the power-tripping that these moderators are displaying is a bit over the top. Instead of answering simple questions they choose to just shut down conversations. As a moderator I would never dismiss somebody’s concerns, because if they are getting to the point of complaining about something then it is important to them. It wouldn’t be fair for me to do nothing about it. Where there is smoke there is usually a fire of some sort, so it is always important to look into it.

Back to the general channel we go! How the hell does asking a moderator a simple question about their beliefs, when it comes to racist white nationalism, become a problem on an all ages server? Deflection is never a good look, just answer the damn question! C answers back that they have been getting messages from others in the server who are also concerned and feeling uncomfortable. I don’t blame them because even seven months after the fact I am feeling uncomfortable as hell reading G’s dismissive comments.

Fucking hell! Isn’t R just a pleasant person; telling C to leave if they feel uncomfortable instead of tackling the issues going on. Who knew that asking somebody about their political beliefs would be controversial? R and G can dance around the question all they want, but it’s as if they have opened a red flag factory and are planting them all over that server.

C goes to town and makes perfect sense. How the hell is a marginalized person supposed to feel safe in an online community when the moderators refuse to answer a very simple and serious question?

C goes on to describe the entire situation that has been allowed to take place on the server. Then one of Madi’s deluded fans tries to deflect by saying that there are a lot of Nazi punk bands. Said by a person who obviously doesn’t have a clue about the punk subculture and its history of not tolerating right winged ideologies. C sets them straight, and of course they are correct.

This new participant, let’s call them Z, is absolutely correct in their sentiment because this is indeed how racist white nationalists act. They wiggle their way into subcultures, dress like members of it and then when they feel safe and protected they start using dog whistles to test out the waters. If nobody confronts them they then think that they can get away with anything. Most of the time they are easy to spot, and if you have been around for decades in different subcultures, like I have, you will see this sort of thing happen time and time again. It is why there has always been a tradition of beating the crap out of them when they are found. I actually witnessed this first hand over thirty years ago at the punk club 924 Gilman in Berkeley. A group of WAR(white aryan resistance) skins tried to push their way into Gilman and the entire club emptied and gave chase to them down the street. I wanted to join in but the volunteer who used to help run the club held me back because they said I could get killed. My fellow punks beat the shit out of them and they didn’t come back. Hooray!

I feel Z’s frustration when it comes to this entire situation. I too am tired of seeing this kind of crap happening yet again. They even suggest starting another Discord channel and inviting Madi to it so that they can discuss this situation with her away from the moderators. Making jokes about literal Nazi sympathizers in this kind of situation is indeed not funny and it raises yet more red flags.

Z again makes excellent points. Their assessment of G at the end is a logical one to make given the circumstances.

A history lesson by Z about why fascists have always managed to squirm their way into both the industrial and goth subcultures. It’s because some people in the subcultures have always adopted historically fascist looking fashion. The actual fascists see this and think that their views will be accepted into the subcultures. This is the main reason why I never got into that kind of fashion, because it just looks way too close to Nazi uniforms for my comfort.

This is the continuation of that same paragraph. Z is right in saying that the original reason why the early punks adopted Nazi imagery was to piss of their parents and the general public who all worshipped the Allied victory in WW2. They were basically being edgelords, and Siouxsie has apologized for her own part in it. Real actual fascists from metal, punk and other subcultures come into the goth community because they think that historically goths accept everybody and are not political.

Yet another continuation of the paragraph that Z wrote. They go into how online goth communities don’t push back against fascism hard enough, which leaves an opening for the fascists to sneak in under the guise of ‘acceptance’. No, the goth community is not obliged to accept fascists into the community because such people should by be punched. Remember it is a time honoured tradition.

A third moderator, who we will call J, enters the fray. C thinks this is Madi’s now husband, BUT they also hinted that they think this may actually be Madi herself. I have no idea either way so jump to your own conclusions when it comes to this.

After this series of articles about what happened seven months ago I was going to take a peak at the current state of her goth Discord channel, but I learned from a friend that she took the server down sometime between then and now. I guess she thought that people would forget what happened or something equivalent to that? I have no clue.

So this will be the end of the second part of my series. The next article, part three, will be published on Friday the 20th. Thank you for reading!

Part 1

Part 3

Part 4

Madi Danger’s Goth Discord Server History Raises Some Red Flags/Part 1

January 16, 2023 / / 6 Comments
I stand with Jello. People who get it….get it.

EDIT: Since this post is the most viewed on my blog I would like to add another screenshot that makes everything crystal clear. This is a screenshot of a past cache of Madi’s black metal Spotify playlist. On it she has the white nationalist band Burzum not once but twice. Spotify playlists take forever to update so I got lucky. I underlined them in green. Solid proof she has some white nationalist sympathies.

I just want to start out by saying that all of the info in this article was gathered by reading a very long PUBLIC post that somebody made of this entire situation seven months ago. They also included some screen shots to prove their side of the story. So, none of this was created out of thin air. Why didn’t it gain traction? Because the person in question claims that they were hounded online by Madi, her husband, her fans and their friends. However, they kept their post up in the hopes that others would see it. This is going to be a long and detailed post so get your seatbelts on; it’s going to be a very bumpy ride. I will be sharing photos and commenting under each one. By the way they are all in order of appearance, nothing is left out.

The fact that Madi’s friend G, who is one of the mods running the server, says that they are more comfortable around Norwegian black metal musicians really, really raises a red flag. The person above is correct in saying that the black metal genre, and specifically the Norwegian variety, has a history of racism and white supremacy. Varg Vikernes is a racist murdering piece of shit, and to think otherwise is basically condoning his actions and white supremacist beliefs. This isn’t rocket science.

So, the poster feels uncomfortable about all of this because they are a person who is regularly marginalized. They ask G what they meant, and they don’t really get a straight answer. Not a great look at all. Personally, I probably would have lost it by this time and would have just told all of them to go fuck themselves. They are showing extreme restraint and I commend them for that.

They tried to get a straight answer from G, but their question was still ignored. They even asked G’s partner and fellow moderator, R, and they also didn’t give a straight answer. They also talk about how a post in the discord that was deleted for no reason by G. What was the subject? It was about how Nazi clothing has no place in the goth and industrial subcultures. Why was it deleted? Because apparently it was off subject, even though it is a goth discord. Yes, you read that correctly. There is also an accusation about a Jewish member being called a slur by G, however there is no screenshot of that so it cannot be confirmed.

Above is G. Gee I wonder if he has racist white nationalist sympathies? We are next going to go straight into screenshots of all of the messages talked about above, because he starts talking about Madi next in his tale and all of that needs to be seen together on its own in a separate dedicated post(s). All of these will be in order so no claims of discarding certain messages can be made. This is pretty much a huge information dump and the reason why I am splitting this article into different parts.

The conversation starts with the poster, let’s just call them C, answering a question posed by G. There is some regular banter with C just giving their opinion about some problematic Soundcloud rappers.

This is where G openly states that he would feel more comfortable around Norwegian black metal musicians. As stated earlier in this article Norwegian black metal has a reputation for harbouring racist white nationalist musicians. Are all Norwegian black metal musicians racist white nationalists? Of course not, however there is something about that subculture that attracts those type of people. This raised a huge red flag for C, and when I personally read that the hairs on the back of my neck stood up and I immediately thought about when Brandon Pybus of Sonsombre was found out to be a member of a racist neo-Confederate organization.

That bottom comment that G makes about Varg being a ‘wild and crazy guy’ just really irks the hell out of me. No, you know what Varg is? A murdering racist white nationalistic piece of shit who deserves to drown in his own filth. That statement of his just hoists that red flag all the way up the flagpole for me.

His statement is cut off but C basically just told G that Norwegian black metal has racist white nationalist issues. In response G says that they aren’t going to talk about that there. Gives no reason, just tries to shut down the conversation. They could have said something like ‘white nationalists in the Norwegian black metal scene suck and I don’t agree with their views at all’ and that would have just ended the entire conversation. However, he chose not to do that. Hmmmm…..I wonder why?

Oh shit!!!! G just up and says ‘I don’t support politics on either side in the scene’. That ‘encouraging violence in any scene is intolerable’ is his reasoning and I am just so awed by this lack of self awareness on display here. C comments that they think that one side is definitely worse, and I agree. Racist white nationalists suck and should be punched, because that is a time honoured tradition in the punk and goth subcultures. Something that goes back all the way to the 1970’s. The simple fact that G doesn’t know or acknowledge this is sketchy as hell. G then says that he has to keep the place ‘safe for everyone’. Safe for who? Racist white nationalists?

C makes it clear that they want just a straight answer, and G fobs them off yet again. Being brave as hell C announces that they are going to have to leave the server if there are any white nationalists or people with Nazi beliefs. Then yet again they tell G that they don’t understand the status quote that G keeps trying to say is his opinion on white nationalism. G’s response to all of this just takes the cake. In other words G just doesn’t give a shit. What he really fails to grasp is that the goth subculture historically has always been left winged and not tolerant of right wing racist white nationalist bullshit. Remember folks, this is supposed to be a goth Discord community, not anything having to do with metal. Yet the moderator seemingly knows nothing about the history of the goth subculture. Doesn’t that sound familiar?

I can just feel C’s frustration at not getting a straight answer right now. At any point during this entire ordeal G could have just stepped up and said what they believed in, but nope they take the cowardly way out and say yet again that they don’t like letting politics ‘fuel’ their friendships or communities. Then G has the fucking audacity to respond flippantly when C asks him what his status means politically. The cold hard truth of this is G is a moderator of Madi’s dedicated goth Discord server, so this does not reflect well on her at all. Seriously.

C again asks for an answer to their question. What happens? G then claims, in all of his stupidity, that ‘finding’ politics in the goth subculture would ruin the scene because they assume that there aren’t any politics in the subculture at all. Let’s just take a minute to digest that before we go on. Ready? G obviously does not know crap about the goth subculture at all, because if he did they wouldn’t say something so amazingly ignorant. Why the hell is somebody who knows so little about the subculture put as a moderator of a Discord server that is supposed to be a resource for information about the goth subculture? Madi is putting herself out there as some sort of fount of knowledge about the goth subculture and this is what she comes up with? Oh hell to the no. The goth subculture has always been left leaning and political. Did Siouxsie wear stupid Nazi shit over 40 years ago? Yes, and she apologized for it because she realized how wrong she had been. Since the full formation of the goth subculture in the early 80’s musicians who espouse racist white nationalistic views are condemned by the majority and pushed away when found out. There are, of course, dumb racist idiots who will support such musicians but they are definitely in the minority, especially right now. If anything the subculture has grown even more political within the last ten years, which can only be a good thing.

Don’t look for trouble where there isn’t any? You know what I find troublesome? When somebody refuses to clearly state what their stance is on racist white nationalistic beliefs.

Dude, you literally told C that your political stance on racist white nationalism was in your profile. How the hell is somebody on a GOTH Discord server supposed to know that the quote you pointed them to is based on a METAL meme? Please don’t think that I have anything against metal music as a whole. In fact Danzig is one of my favourite bands and I saw the original line-up live back in 1992. So if anybody wants to claim that I know nothing about metal music they can full on kiss my ass. In fact I have been writing this post with the help of the first four Danzig albums. Oh, and I almost forgot. On top of all of that I was going to the punk club 924 Gilman in Berkeley over 30 years ago so I in turn know quite a bit about punk music. I am a triple threat; a woman who knows a lot about both goth and punk music while having a decent understanding of metal music. I hope that makes these moderators, and Madi, uncomfortable. C, yet again, asks for clarification which should earn them some sort of trophy for tenacity at this point.

In comes G’s partner R to the rescue! I’m sure they will have a rational explanation for all of this since R is G’s significant other. So asking whether or not a moderator has racist white nationalistic views isn’t goth? Oh, I forgot. We are supposed to be really meek and roll over and bark at your command because the goth subculture is filled with people with no political beliefs. Right? Fuck right off with that nonsense. I have absolutely no pity for people who are this damn ignorant. So G is stating that C is looking for ‘problems’ for asking the same damn simple question over and over again? None of this looks good for either of the moderators or for Madi herself, since she presents herself as knowledgable about the goth subculture and this is her dedicated goth Discord server.

Part two in this series will be up on Wednesday the 18th. I was not kidding when I said this is an info dump.

Part 2

Part 3

Part 4

People Desperately Want To Be Called Goth Right Now

December 29, 2022 / / 0 Comments
I was minding my own business when I came upon this earlier today.

Sometimes I’ll sit around trying to figure out what the heck to write about next. Most of the time ideas pop right into my head out of nowhere, but sometimes the social media gods/goddesses smile down upon me and plop a bundle of joy right onto my lap. The interaction that I had with this person easily proves why some gatekeeping is absolutely necessary in the goth subculture.

So, the above kid is asking what name should those who dress ‘goth’ but don’t listen to the actual music be called. The simple answer is of course a poseur. Oh noes, professional trendy ‘goth’ fashion victims outnumber actual goths, that must mean they are right? This is a case of a kid, at least I hope they are young, so desperate for the ‘goth’ tag that they try to tell actual goths what the goth subculture is like. You would be correct in thinking that this isn’t going to go very well for them. My responses to them are circled in green, while theirs and others are red.

I didn’t jump into this first section because the cringe was heavy in the air.

Look at our little dude/dudette go! They don’t want to hear the truth, rather they want to be validated in their self imposed wannabe gothdom; like Batman in his batcave. See what I did there?

Oh lord…….

Do you know why people in the goth community get pissed off about others using the label without listening to the music? Because trendy fashion victims are calling themselves goth without listening to the music. It’s really that simple and not that complicated. They don’t need a ‘culturally sensitive’ name, they are the living and breathing definitions of a goth subculture poseur. If they don’t like that then they do indeed need a new hobby. I’m not wrong in my assessment.

I wasn’t exaggerating when I said this fell into my lap.

Am I one of those ‘musical’ goths? I do love GiGi, Singing In The Rain, The Sound Of Music and The Wizard Of Oz. Oh wait, I think he meant ‘music’ goths. He says it like it’s dirty to listen to goth music. This is where they expose the fact that they are pissed off at being called a poseur. They called me a gatekeeper in response because they didn’t like the answer that they received. Tough luck buttercup, the music is very important to the subculture and your little temper tantrum isn’t going to change that fact.

I love when they go down this road.

The dude/dudette is denying they want the goth tag, all while making a post on Reddit complaining about people denying him, and his friends, the goth tag. They aren’t the brightest crayon in the box.

I feel like I should be watching a musical right now.

Goths are into actual goth music and get pissed off when trendy fashion victims call themselves goth for just dressing in black. Who would have thunk it? If they keep running into this ‘problem’ then maybe they need to learn some self awareness.

Another idiot has to throw in that Joy Division is a goth band.

You know how I feel about Joy Division being called a ‘goth’ band. I couldn’t help but interact with this interloper.

Where to start?

Out of every interaction that I had with this poseur this is my favourite part. I love how they actually say the truth for a second, then double back saying it isn’t a genre of music that goths listen to any longer. How dare goths listen to actual goth music! How dare they!

Again, I really hope this person is young.

They really do come across as somebody who has been called a poseur quite a few times. They can dance around this all they want, but that doesn’t negate the fact that they don’t listen to actual goth music. It’s really quite fascinating just how important the goth tag is for this person; denial is not a river in Egypt. Damn those darn music goths, damn them all! Yes, I would have the balls to call this person a poseur to their face. Seriously.

Oh noes, they corrected my spelling! Whatever shall I do?

They really are acting just like a child having a tantrum. They can bang on the gate of goth till they are blue in the face, but because they and their friends don’t listen to actual goth music they will never be let in. They claim that those darn ‘music’ goths are in a minority where they live. That would come down to the fact that him and his wannabe goth friends exist in an echo chamber, in which no actual goth person resides. So goths who listen to actual goth bands are now elitists? Considering the idiocy on show here I will wear that ‘insult’ as a badge of honour.

Yes, I do like musicals and I have no shame.

Apparently it is rude now to tell people the truth instead of validating their wonky self-made identity. This sort of thing always makes me wonder how people deal with situations such as this in the offline world. They even add the whole gatekeeping trope that normally appears in these sorts of online confrontations. Again, why this desperate need for the goth tag?

Christ on a crutch.

Dude, you can wear whatever the hell you want, nobody is stopping you. However, the minute you call yourself a goth without even giving the music a chance you become the living and breathing embodiment of a poseur. Want to dress in black and not be called a poseur then stop calling yourself a goth. It really is that simple. If the ‘normies’ are calling you a goth it’s because they think it is only about a style of clothes. When have the ‘normies’ ever been right about alternative subcultures?

Oh the humanity!

Apparently I am supposed to be over sixty if I listen to actual goth music. I only have nine more years left until I came become one of those infamous ‘musical’ goths! This has me rather excited. Can you tell?

Oh FFS.

Oh yes, isn’t it rather silly that goths listen to actual goth music? They have probably been called a poseur by multiple people in the goth community and keep trying to get the answer that they want to hear. Remember, the person keeps insisting that they don’t want the goth tag all while bitching about those mean ‘musical’ goths not accepting them into the goth subculture. I am disappointed because they obviously already have their answer, but they refuse to believe it.

I’ll do what I like, you aren’t the boss of me!

….and that attitude makes you a poseur.

This was my original answer to their question.

How am I wrong? Even thirty years ago the people just into the fashion aspect of things were called poseurs. Want to make a bet that they didn’t even read my link?

Well, that is it for today. Sometimes people do not want to listen to the truth and that is on them, not on you.

Thoughts On The Goth Grifter

December 26, 2022 / / 0 Comments
Wednesday, the latest image that the goth grifter is poaching.

I can hear you asking, what is a goth grifter? To put it simply it is somebody using the goth subculture in order to make money, receive free gifts, or to gain popularity in ‘alternative’ subculture circles in general. Through my years of listening to goth and punk music and participating in various ‘scenes’ I have seen my fair share of them so it is fairly easy for me to root them out. All of the information included in this article is public and quite easy to find so I didn’t have to dig far to get any of it.

One year ago Madi Danger thought that all post-punk music was goth, as evidenced above. EDIT: As of 15/01 she has taken down my comment. Too late Madi, too late!!!!!

The most recent really obvious case that has totally jump started me into finally writing about this is the mysterious appearance of the self proclaimed metal and goth music lover Madi Danger. I first saw her on YouTube last year when she made a ‘intro to goth music’ video that misrepresented Echo &The Bunnymen and Joy Division both as goth bands. I corrected her just on the Bunnymen inclusion, because I didn’t feel like being called a gatekeeper. She came back with the whole ‘post-punk is a genre under the goth umbrella’ fallacy. I automatically thought that she must be really young to think that since it is surface level misinformation. Somebody older and wiser would know differently. Well, guess what? Imagine my surprise when I found out that she was twenty-four years old when she wrote the above misinformation.

The question that immediately comes to my mind is why would a fully grown ass woman in her mid-twenties suddenly hitch her trailer to the goth subculture? She obviously knows a whole lot about metal music and is a big fan of that genre. Yet, she all of a sudden likes goth and wants to share her surface level knowledge of it with everybody? It just really feels inauthentic, like she is hitching her identity now to ‘goth’ because it is what is very popular. She has the teased hair, the clothes, and all of the frippery, but it’s just really a shell that is easily cracked. She is using goth as an additive to her already metal identity, to gain more attention and more of a following. You know what? I wouldn’t hold anything against her at all if she was a youngster, but she is now twenty-six years old. This is a grift for subculture clout, and a painfully obvious one at that.

They quite frequently will call themselves a ‘trad goth’, which always makes me roll my eyes.

The next kind of goth grifter that I have run into a lot online are the ones who call themselves ‘trad goth’. They think that calling themselves such will gain them more goth community clout since the goth grifter feels that anything out of the 80’s is cool. They copy what they think the 80’s were like, but since they weren’t even born in that decade it just comes across as really shallow and reeks of desperation. They want what the 80’s produced, such as goth music, without any of the hardships that the people who actually went through that decade lived through. It’s the exact same crap as the wannabe hippies of the late 80’s; people longing for a decade, which in reality, they probably would not have fit into.

They link to an Amazon wish-list, because of course they do.

The goth grifter doesn’t really have any shame and will usually openly advertise their Amazon wish-list as the person above has done. They do this, of course, to receive free products. My huge question about this is why the heck do they think that they deserve free merch from complete strangers? What are they producing that is so damn special that they think that they deserve these goods? It takes some ego to think that their contribution to the goth subculture is that important and that worthy of attention, when in fact the information they share is usually limited and based off of misinformation. So instead of helping the subculture they hinder it, because all of the youngsters who follow these grifters head down the same path of outright lies and half truths. It’s a goth circle jerk.

Your ‘goth queen’? Oh FFS.

I feel kind of bad for calling out this particular person in the last three photos but they embody so perfectly the point I am making. I have been running this blog as a hobby for over two years now and never once did I think that it would be okay for me to throw up an Amazon wish-list so that I could get free crap. In fact I do not make a dime at all from doing any of this. I do this because I love both the goth and punk subcultures and want to share real information, not half truths and lies that I have pulled out of my ass. I was actually a teen in the 80’s who lived through that decade not somebody playing 80’s dress-up for cash and prizes.

Because of the mainstream popularity of the series Wednesday you now have numerous goth grifters who think that dressing in black and copying a dance makes them automatically a goth. It reminds me of when Mansonites in the 90’s did the same exact crap; copying an image that they think gives them an entryway into the goth subculture, when in reality the opposite is true. When people try so hard to match an image is just reeks of desperation. How is any of this different from the endless grifting that the Kardashians do on social media? It’s done for the exact same reason; to be popular despite not having a discernable talent. Oh wow, you can buy some black clothes online and do over the top ‘goth’ make-up. In the words of Teddy Roosevelt; bully for you. You don’t deserve special treatment for it, or over the top praise for doing what thousands have done before you.

What is the best thing you can do? Not give money or gifts to any of these goth grifters. Within a few years they will more than likely drop out of the subculture and pivot to another grift. Remember Sebastian Columbine? No? My point exactly.

Why Is Hot Topic Charging More For Some Plus Sized Clothing?

December 23, 2022 / / 0 Comments
At first I thought I was seeing things, but they are indeed doing this.

This has always been a topic that has stirred controversy; companies charging more for plus sized clothing. So much so that most clothing companies have stopped doing this due to pressure from the general public. Since this is the case why the heck does Hot Topic think that this is a great idea? I’m guessing that they are counting on people not noticing. Surprise, I have!

Pretty recently Hot Topic have decided to start selling ‘goth’ looking clothes once again. Quite honestly the pieces actually look better, and cost less, than the dreck that Killstar is pushing these days. So, please don’t think I am bashing Hot Topic when it comes to that. In fact I recently bought a very cool Misfits hoodie from them and it is of very good quality and I love it. The reason they are doing this is because they saw goth becoming a huge trend once again and wanted some of that cash. To think otherwise is just being very naive.

Two more examples.

As per the photo above you can see that they are not doing this with every single piece; the two not highlighted are the same price. Why not just spread the cost between the two versions instead of punishing plus sized people by charging more for a slightly different size? This, quite honestly, reeks of trying to make more money off of plus sized people since Hot Topic knows that it is more difficult for them to find alternative type clothing that fits.

It’s kind of funny that the plus sized skirt is actually cheaper right here on sale. However, the regular price is still more.

I don’t see them changing their ways unless enough people start yelling at them about it. It is very important to stand up and make your voice heard in these types of situations, because sitting on your hands and doing nothing does not create change.

In Which I Answer Some Basic Goth Questions For The Masses

December 7, 2022 / / 0 Comments
How spooky!

For whatever reason there are tons of people right now asking the same basic questions about the goth subculture. Who am I kidding, we know exactly why so many questions are being asked right now; being ‘goth’ is a huge trend train that lots of people who have no clue about the actual subculture want to jump on. All of these questions are ones that I have seen asked online over and over and over again. So they are real, not anything I have made up. All aboard!

Am I goth if I wear the colour black?

No, because the goth subculture doesn’t own the colour. Plenty of people outside of the subculture also wear black, such as metalheads, priests, nuns, etc… Go forth and wear all of the black you want, nobody should be stopping you for doing so. However, it doesn’t magically transport you into the goth subculture or make you a member of it. It’s a music based subculture, not one based upon the colour of clothes that you wear.

What clothes do I have to buy and what music do I have to listen to in order to be a Victorian/vampire/trad/cyber/mall goth?

This is the one question that really gets my knickers in a twist. Those ‘goth types’ were started as a joke in the 90’s, making fun of the stereotypes found in goth clubs. That is all it was meant to be, it wasn’t meant to be a roadmap as to how to belong to the subculture. There are some self described ‘elder goths’ who have actually argued with me about this, saying that people used to take it seriously back in the day. No they did not. In the area that I lived during the 90’s somebody even made stickers based on the stereotypes and I found some in a vending machine in a Pizza Hut in San Francisco in 1998. I only remember that because I was the assistant manager of a Spirit Halloween store during that time and would always get pizza for lunch. If you want to tick all of the boxes off to become a certain stereotype within the subculture nobody is going to stop you but you will get a massive amount of eye rolling. Instead of wanting to be a stereotype just be yourself. Announcing to the world that you want to be a certain type of goth is never a great look.

Do I have to listen to only goth music to be a goth?

Of course not. The only group of people in the goth community who have ever believed that are the uber goobers, who have always been boring as hell. I listen to goth, metal, thrash, punk, disco, 70’s/80’s soul, old school rap/hip-hop, classical, new wave, blues,etc… I have always been into multiple forms of music and I have no shame in admitting it. Goth music has many styles, such as deathrock, goth rock, darkwave, ethereal and cold wave. If you try out each style and don’t like any of them you are more than likely just darkly inclined and there is nothing wrong with that. If this pisses you off then you should be asking yourself why is being goth so important to you and as to why you want that label so much in the first place.

Do I have to buy clothes from expensive online dark alternative stores to be a goth?

The answer to that is a huge no! There are a bunch of younger people running around right now looking like wannabe witches and slamming onto the gates guarding the goth community wanting in even though they don’t listen to the music. It is a music based subculture not one that is totally based on how you look. The people saying otherwise are straight up liars. If you are starting out just buy black basic clothes from a regular store, or even a thrift store, and get some accessories off of Etsy to jazz them up. Some regular stores, such as New Look in the UK, are known for carrying some goth friendly clothes. Every single time I go to the one near me I walk out with something.

Do I have to buy clothes from thrift stores in order to be a goth?

One of the main ways I used to get clothes back in the 80’s/90’s was by going to thrift stores. I lived in an area that had a lot of good ones so I was very lucky. Where I live now the thrift stores are hard to get to and are very overpriced so I just avoid them. If there are no thrift stores near you, or if they suck where you live, don’t worry about it.

Do I have to learn DIY skills to be a goth?

I have been doing DIY type clothing projects for decades and I am completely self taught. I learned to hand sew back in the 80’s and I can hem, dart, add buttons,etc…I have always upcycled clothing. I have even bought Killstar items on clearance in the past and made them look completely different. I can also do stud work and paint on leather/pleather which is a very easy thing to learn. There are a ton of tutorials on YouTube showing you how to do all of these kinds of projects. By learning DIY skills you can curate your own style so that you don’t look exactly the same as everybody else, plus it’s a lot of fun!

Do I have to be skinny and white to be a goth?

This question always breaks my heart. White skinny women and men have always been the go to for the goth aesthetic look that some directors, subculture magazines and others have been pushing since the 80’s. I would say it has only been within the last five years that you see people of colour being more visually represented within the subculture. It should have happened way sooner than that. You do not need to be white or skinny to be a goth. Don’t let anybody tell you otherwise.

Why is metal music not considered goth?

Metal music has historically never been considered goth. One of the main reasons being that metalheads, back in the 80’s, used to threaten and beat the crap out of punks and anybody else who looked ‘alternative’. That includes goths. I personally never got jumped, BUT a whole lot of male metalheads used to give me crap all of the time. Also, the music developed totally separately from it. Goth music developed out of punk, while metal developed out of 60’s rock and psychedelic music. You can, of course, like metal music and goth music at the same time. I have always loved the hell out of early Danzig and even saw them play in 1992.

When and how do I become an elder goth?

An elder goth is considered to be somebody who has been into the music for decades and still supports the subculture in one way or another. I started getting into the music in 1986 and have always been a goth-punk weirdo so I am considered to be an elder goth. I have seen some people around my age who just got into wearing black clothing who claim they are elder goths. Yes, I have personally seen that happen online and I find it really annoying and fake. You can dress in expensive clothing and wear a ton of make-up but just because you are older doesn’t mean you are an elder goth. It takes a decade or two, not a credit card, to be considered one.

How do I become a goth influencer?

This question does my head in. Seriously. Younger people see ‘goth’ influencers online getting a bunch of free swag and want exactly the same. For them it is not about the music, instead it is about curating an image; one in which they think will make them more ‘goth’. Nothing can be further from the truth. I call this the Kardashianization of the goth subculture and it is just gross. Not all goths with a YouTube, or other social media platform, push clothing, but so many do that it just becomes a blurry mess of pentacles, platform boots and loads of over the top make-up. They give the impression that all goths dress to the nines every single day, when in fact we don’t. I’m laying around in my Star Wars pyjamas right now typing this.

Do I have to dye my hair, or get tattoos and piercings to be considered goth?

Sometimes it trips me out just how ‘in’ it is these days to get tattoos, piercings and bright hair colours. All three have become totally mainstreamed so you won’t really look ‘different’ doing so. You don’t have to do any of this to be goth because it is just window dressing. These days if you see somebody dressed in all black with green hair walking down the street chances are you won’t have anything in common with them because they are just following a trend. It’s sad but it’s the truth.

Well, that is it for now. Whomever you are I hope this helps you on your journey into the goth subculture or at least points you in the right direction. Always be you, not a stereotype that you think people want to see.

Claire’s Now Has A Goth Section On Their Website

December 1, 2022 / / 0 Comments
Yes, you read that correctly.

I am 100% not surprised by this. Mainly for the fact that they have carried goth friendly jewellery in the past. I go to the one in my town every once in a while and always walk out with something. Quite honestly I don’t think the aesthetic has ever been quite this popular before. A lot of people will move on once the trend dies down, but there will be some who stay for the music. So in the end this really isn’t a bad thing.

I Have Finally Started Working On The Glenn Danzig Themed Jacket!

October 25, 2022 / / 0 Comments
The patch placement on the back I am more than likely going to run with.

You have read that correctly, I have finally started working on the Glenn Danzig themed jacket! This will entail including patches from the Misfits, Samhain, Danzig and other related spooky stuff. The funny thing is that all of this is happening around the same time that I finally got my eyes tested and found out that I need reading glasses. It was getting difficult to thread a needle so that really needed to happen.

We own a cat, can you tell?

Without glasses I managed to sew on the Samhain death dealer patch. I used red thread to make it pop a little. I have decided not to tire the hell out of my eyes any further and just wait for my glasses to arrive before I start on another patch. So, I will be back at it next week. While I was waiting for the last patches to arrive I started yet another project.

Love this hoodie so much!

I bought the above Misfits hoodie from Hot Topic’s website about a month ago. I only order from the site once a year because they charge way too much money for shipping. I’m just going to slowly sew more patches to it and perhaps add some spikes.

All of the patches shown in this post I bought from Etsy.

My Responses To The ‘Goth Tag’ Questions

October 16, 2022 / / 0 Comments
That is me on the left in early 1991. I’ve posted this photo before but it is one of the only photos of myself that I have from back then. I didn’t like having my photo taken.

I have seen these questions making the rounds all over social media and I thought I would join in since my answers will be a bit different compared to a lot of the other answers I have seen. This is due to being old and also being heavily into punk music.

1. How long have I been goth? My area of the San Francisco East Bay did not start using the word until around 90-91. Some of my favourite bands in high school in the late 80’s, that are considered goth, were Specimen, Siouxsie And The Banshees, The Cure, Gene Loves Jezebel and The Cult. So I have been listening to the music since about 1986. During that time I also loved U2 and The Dead Kennedys so musically I was all over the place. I didn’t call myself a goth until about 92 because the people who used the term first in my area were the uber goobers and I did not want to be lumped in with them. They took themselves way too seriously, which I never did. I have also always had a foot in the punk subculture.

2. How was I introduced to goth? Nobody sat me down and told me what to listen to or how to dress. There was no internet, of course, and it could be kind of difficult to find out about bands. At the first high school I went to I was the only person in my friend group who listened to the music, and they thought the music was too weird. There was a Bay Area ‘modern rock’ station during that time that would play the more obscure stuff late at night and that’s how I learned about a few of them . At my second high school there were more weirdos, and some of them were quite helpful with bands. Back then the term ‘post-punk’ wasn’t used at all in my area, rather all weirdo music, except for punk of course, was called ‘alternative’ or ‘modern rock’. The term ‘alternative’ was ruined by the mainstream record labels who used it for grunge in their attempt to sell ‘weirdo’ music to the masses.

3. What gothic subgenre would you put yourself in? If you regularly read this blog then you know how much I dislike all of the ‘goth type’ crap. It originated as a joke in the 90’s, making fun of the stereotypes seen in clubs. For whatever reason a lot of younger folks, and some deluded old ones, feel the need to fit themselves into a box. I do tend to listen to a lot of deathrock music, probably more-so than any other ‘type’ but I refuse to call myself ‘deathrock’ because there is more to me than just one form of music, and I refuse to box myself in just to please others.

4. What do you believe to be the bases(basis) of the gothic subculture? First, I would love to point out how the person who wrote out these questions uses both the terms ‘goth’ and ‘gothic’. We used to always use both of the terms interchangeability way back when but now ‘gothic’ means spooky architecture, while ‘goth’ means the subculture. I think the basis of the subculture is the music more than anything else. Without the music there wouldn’t be a subculture. Period. The clothes and make-up are secondary. Anybody who calls themselves goth but who doesn’t listen to actual goth bands is more than likely a trend whore; a person who jumps from trend to trend. Since the term has been super popular in the mainstream for the last few years there are quite a few of these people floating around all wearing the same really shit Demonia boots and the same kind of outfits. I find them all boring, but it is rather entertaining when these fashion victims bitch about their Demonias falling apart within a week of wearing them.

5. What do I dislike about being goth? I know that a lot of goth women bitch about being sexually harassed by men who think all goth women are kinky, but that hasn’t happened to me at all in real life. I think it’s mainly because I look older and use a cane. There are some upsides to being diseased and middle aged. There really isn’t anything that I dislike since I am in my own bubble of existence. I am just me being me.

6. What do your parents think of it? My mom was with me when I got my first undercut in 88, so she has always been very supportive of me and has said that if she had been my age she would also be goth. I have a cool mom. My dad died back in 85. I honestly think that his death had a lot to do with me becoming a weirdo. I was already an outcast for being poor and having a dead parent so morphing into a goth/punk weirdo wasn’t a huge step for me to take. In fact just about everybody into goth/punk music back then was some sort of societal reject.

7. Eyebrows or no eyebrows? Eyebrows, because I look like crap with them shaved off.

8. What is my favourite band? I have a holy trinity of all time favourite bands; Samhain, Christian Death (mostly Valor) and The Dead Kennedys (Jello only). Those three groups have probably influenced me more than anything else. I actually got to tell Valor that in person the other month which was cool as hell. Uber goober Rozz fanatics may get mad at me for liking Valor’s music more than the music of Rozz but I just don’t give a shit. Seriously. Stay angry and irrational over something that happened about 40 years ago, it’s entertaining.

9. My opinion on Marilyn Manson? This question is a bit young for me since I was already in my twenties when he reared his very ugly head. I remember seeing people younger than me at the clubs in the late 90’s trying to look like him and it was hysterically funny. The fact that it came out that he is an abusive asshole didn’t come as a shock to me. In the wise words of Jello Biafra:

You ain’t hardcore ’cause you spike your hair

When a jock still lives inside your head

10. What were my baby bat days like? I didn’t really experience that because I was so all over the place musically. However, it kind of sucked being into both punk and goth bands at the same time back over 30 years ago because according to some people I was too punk for goth and too goth for punk. The punk subculture was way more welcoming to me and I actually gained the nickname Vampira because of dressing in all black and loving the Misfits, Samhain and Danzig. It was actually a bit tough being a woman into those three bands back then; they were considered ‘guy’ bands because of the violent imagery and horror content of the songs. I have always been into horror and sci-fi films and novels so I identified very heavily with those bands and they spoke to me a lot. Kids these days get into the fashion first and then the music, but back then it was the opposite. I listened to goth and punk music first and then slowly started dressing ‘dark’. Even back then I did a lot of DIY type projects so I always painted my own leather jackets and upcycled clothing. However, there was a US clothing chain called Contempo Casuals who sold a whole lot of weirdo friendly clothing. Just about every single person I knew back then had a least a few pieces of clothing by them. I had a pair of black crushed velvet leggings from there that lasted me about ten years. No joke! So the older people in the US saying that all they did was thrift is a total lie, and they know it. I even found a long multi-layer black lace skirt in a regular mall store back then.

So, that is it! I hope you had as much fun reading this as I had writing it. As you can see my experiences are a bit different since I was also into punk and got into the music first. It was a road of discovery for me, not a destination. Especially considering that the term ‘goth’ wasn’t even used in my area until after I was already listening to the music.

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