My Dystopian Life

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Category: Goth Music (Page 3 of 9)

Madi Danger’s Goth Discord History Raises Some Red Flags/ Part 4

January 22, 2023 / / 0 Comments
Again, I stand with Jello.

Welcome to part four in my series about the very problematic history of Madi Danger’s now defunct goth Discord server. If you have not read 1-3 of this series yet I would suggest doing so because they show a clear pattern of behaviour. Links to those earlier posts will be at the bottom of this article. Again, I am showing these screenshots in the order in which I found them. None of them have been left out. Just a warning, this and the next article in this series are composed of just conversations that took place that prove that what C has been saying is true. Again, there will be racist white nationalist flags planted all over the place

This looks like yet another conversation that has started between C and Madi, one of which that C had previously talked about in their story. Yet again C tries to explain why they, and others, do not feel safe in the community because of J’s lack of action against G. J apparently made some excuses such as ‘I don’t know anything about you’ trope. Why the hell does J even need to know the background of anybody; if the members say that a moderator had repeatedly said and done racist type things to them they should be 100% believed, especially when they have some receipts to prove it. Madi says something that makes absolutely no sense so let us continue on.

That above message that you cannot see the entirety of? It is of G saying that they are not a racist white nationalist. EDIT: Madi has kindly shared all of G’s statement and it is at the bottom of this article. :EDIT That is way too little way to late for C’s comfort and for mine as well. G was asked over, and over, and over again by C if they had racist white nationalism type views and G repeatedly refused to answer. There is no backing up and retroactively saving yourself from this sort of situation. If a leftist, such as myself, was asked if they had racist white nationalistic type views the resounding answer would be a huge no. Also, more than likely, a leftist would explain why racist white nationalism is wrong. Unfortunately, it really feels like we are dealing with people here who reside on the other side of the aisle.

C explains why they do not feel safe in the server; they personally know people who have been doxxed and one that was a victim of a hate crime. C was not being overly sensitive in this situation, they had an absolute right to not feel safe in that community. They were just beginning to make YouTube videos about mainly goth type topics, but C also wanted to include videos about trans issues since they themselves are trans. They had wanted to link it to the server, but because of all of the unanswered questions about racist white nationalism in the community they took it down. I do not blame them one bit.

C’s paragraph continues here; their explanation of why they do not feel safe because of all of the red flags that have been planted throughout this entire ordeal. Again, C deserves a lot of praise in this situation because they will not lie down and take this crap. Madi Dearest responds by saying that C shouldn’t share any personal information in the community if they do not feel safe. Her excuse? That it is a large server that she keeps open for anybody to find out information about goth. Since she and the other moderators refused to make rules against bigotry you can easily come up with your own concludion. As I have stated previously in this series there has been a long held tradition in both the punk and goth communities of punching racist white nationalists and banning them from both online and ‘real world’ spaces. From what I witnessed over thirty years ago the punks, and Sharps(skinheads against racial prejudice), did a lot of the heavy lifting, but since that time the goth community has stepped forward and has been more actively involved in pushing racist white nationalists out. As a reminder J, Madi’s now husband, had previously stated that politics don’t belong in the goth subculture and that their inclusion would ruin the ‘scene’. Spoken just like somebody who doesn’t know what the hell they are talking about. If Madi is going to put herself forward as some sort of fountain of knowledge about the goth subculture she, and those mods, should actually learn about the truth of the subculture instead of making shit up as they go along. Again, I find all of this disturbing as hell since her audience tends to skew younger. People are putting their trust in the hands of others who in no way deserve it.

C then starts talking about their experience of also being into punk music and being a member of the punk community. This gets me teary because I have also always loved punk music along with goth music. Over thirty years ago I would go to punk shows and alternative clubs during the same week. I was not alone because a good amount of people back then got into what would become the goth subculture in the San Francisco Bay Area through also liking punk music. Just like C I learned all about racist dog-whistles and crypto-fascists through listening to bands like the Dead Kennedys and from attending shows. C is right, all of the behaviours that Madi, her husband, and those two other moderators are showing would not be tolerated in the punk community. In fact there would be a concerted effort to push them out, I guarantee it. By the way Madi claims to love 70’s-80’s punk music and she has even made a Spotify playlist including songs from the Dead Kennedys and the Subhumans, which tells me that she is not actually ‘listening ‘ to the music. This type of thing happens pretty frequently. It’s like when right wing morons claiming that punk music has become too ‘woke’ and that politics don’t belong in punk. Gee…that sounds familiar doesn’t it?

C goes on about the paradox of intolerance; that if a group of people accept everybody, including the intolerant, eventually the group will be destroyed and taken over by the intolerant. Do you want people such as Madi and her husband holding power in alternative subcultures and destroying them from the inside out? I sure as hell don’t, and they shouldn’t be allowed to freely roam online teaching baby bats what their idea of the goth subculture is all about. All of the frippery and teased hair in the world can’t hide the truth of her actions, and inactions, when it comes to all of this. C also mentions the old saying that if eleven people sit down at a table with one Nazi then there are twelve Nazis. You are the company you keep.

C again tells Madi that all they want is a place to talk about goth without having to worry about being targeted for abuse by people who are anti-trans. Their concern is totally understandable and if I were in their shoes I would feel the same way. I would never be comfortable sharing what I love if I had to worry about literal racist white nationalists wanting to hurt me. Madi, G chose not to answer that very simple question an endless amount of times. Yet you want C to feel safe now just because G finally says that they are antifascist? Seriously? Is she just that dense to think that a statement that came too little too late would just solve everything?

EDIT: That was going to be the end of the article but Madi responded with some screenshots that I supposedly purposely skipped using. In reality I had used the first photo she shared in my first article already and I did not have access to the other two because they were not in the info dump. So I will share those two with you and give my opinion as to the contents of them.

I think the person responding to G is Z from the second article but I am not sure. Z doesn’t find Varg Vikernes funny and neither do I. Varg is a vile murdering racist piece of shit that should be taken seriously and not laughed at. Condemning racists such as Varg should be the priority, rather than laughing about him. Again, how are people in a goth server supposed to know about a metal meme? Laughing about Varg like he is a drunk uncle, rather than condemning him, throws up yet another flag for me. Sorry not sorry

What the hell has G actually explained? As you have seen from the other screenshots in these articles G always evaded the questions thrown at them and repeatedly refused to answer the question as to whether or not they held racist white nationalistic views. Plus, on top of all of that G had been accused by multiple people of deleting talk of racism on the server. Oh, and G and the other mods didn’t think that a rule against bigotry would be be a good idea. Do you know who I am going to believe after reading this entire sorry mess? Not him.

That is the end of part four. Part five will be up on this blog on Tuesday the 24th and it will be the last article in this series. Thank you for reading!

Part 1

Part 2

Part 3

Madi Danger’s Goth Discord History Raises Some Red Flags/Part 3

January 20, 2023 / / 2 Comments
I stand with MDC

Welcome back! This is the third article in my series all about the problematic history of Madi Danger’s now taken down goth Discord server. I would suggest getting caught up before diving into this one, and the links for those first two parts are at the end of this article. Mainly because everything is interconnected and it shows a pattern of behaviour. First we are going to go over the rest of C’s statement about the situation, which we began in the first article. Afterwards the screenshots proving the accusations will be shared. As always I will make comments under each photo.

In the continuation of their explanation of what occurred C once again gets into G and R actively shutting down any conversation about what happened. Just the fact that the two mods, G and R, are deleting any mention of what happened raises yet more big huge red flags. They actively wanted to hide any mention of the community’s concerns over the simple unanswered question as to whether or not they had racist white nationalist beliefs. C mentions that they brought all of these concerns to Madi but that she was dismissive. Do you know what that tells me? That she perhaps also wouldn’t answer that question truthfully if asked and that is very concerning considering that teens are beginning to flock to her for information about the goth subculture. Turns out that the third mod, whom we named J in the last article, is definitely her now husband. I assume that he was sent by Madi into the community to deal with all of the complaints since she couldn’t be bothered. After C and others shared screenshots of what happened with him he claimed that there was not enough evidence to take any sort of action against G, even though some of them made claims that G had been openly racist in the past on the server. C wasn’t able to save the conversation that happened between them and Madi, BUT they did save all of the conversations about this that they had with J.

J wanted to ‘compromise’ about it but every suggestion that C and others made fell on deaf ears. J said that kicking G out of the group was off that table and that taking away his mod duties was also not going to happen. C and others suggested a rule against bigotry but J deemed that too complicated and unenforceable. That very large online punk community that I used to be a mod for had that kind of rule and it was very easy for me to enforce. Any mention of racism in a post, be it a band such as Skrewdriver or far right wing sentiments in general, I would instantly delete. How the hell is that ‘difficult’ to enforce, unless you want to pander to literal racist white nationalists? That isn’t even jumping to a conclusion, that is just a logical thought process in affect. I honestly don’t know how anybody could dismiss all of this crap and only tell G to give people a warning first before banning them. Oh, did I forget to mention that G was banning people left and right over all of this? The huge cherry on top of this shit filled sundae is the fact that when C told Madi their concerns for a second time she said that she stood by her now husband. She then proceeded to tell C that she had asked G if he had racist white supremacist beliefs and that he had told her no. She then shared a sceenshot as proof. Madi stated that since C and the others now had their answer that they should be satisfied. OH HELL TO THE NO! Madi thinks that people are actually going to believe that asshole after he refused to answer the question for so long? Others then told C that she had a sketchy past history; including defending a friend who was caught wearing a Burzum shirt online. That is Varg Vikernes’ racist white nationalist band, in case you didn’t know or forgot. There are no screenshots from those people, but considering how far down the racist white nationalist rabbit hole we have been venturing so far it is not a very hard thing to believe. Oh, and believe me…..it gets much worse from here on out.

Next, C explains how Madi and her husband harassed them across several different social media platforms. C says that they posted over on their Instagram account, warning baby bats not to follow or trust her. She then sent C a bunch of different messages accusing them of calling her a racist, which he actually never did. If you have noticed I have also never called her a racist. So, if she tells people that I have she is grasping at straws and relevancy. A few days after that C commented to somebody not to support her after seeing a post in their timeline of her. Somebody told Madi and J, her husband, and they went after C yet again accusing them of slander and calling them a liar. C couldn’t save J’s messages because of being blocked right afterwards, but C got to save the ones from Madi Dearest.

So, C says that J stalked their Twitter posts. C had blocked Madi so they are assuming that J went spying on them for her, to see if C was still talking about the incidents that took place. C then states that J responded to a tweet of theirs with a screenshot showing C’s ‘uncensored discord name and image’. They then had to change that info because they did not want Madi’s stans stalking and threatening them. There isn’t a screen shot of this, but judging from all of the other crap we have seen so far this really isn’t outside the realm of possibility.

Now that we have read C’s entire story we are going to move onto the screenshots. Some of them may distress you because there are racist white nationalistic flags planted all over them. When I first read them I thought back to the time in which I saw the whole inside of the punk club 924 Gilman empty and chase a bunch of WAR(white aryan resistance) skins down the street to beat the crap out of them. White suprematists come in many forms besides Nazi skinheads; they are your neighbours, office co-workers and some are even people who attend goth clubs.

We are starting right where we left off, these screenshots are a continuation of the ones in PART 2. After having no success when trying to appeal to J about why they felt unsafe C then turns to Madi hoping that she can help. C mentions that several of them think that G is a crypto-fascist. I am guessing that a lot of people reading this are on the same page as them. Then C mentions that another member claims that their posts about racism in the scene were deleted by G. Yet again, gee I wonder why?

C offers to send somebody’s message as proof of what happened. Apparently C had been banned from the group, along with some others, by G. Madi then unbans C. This next part really pisses me off. Madi telling somebody to ‘keep cool’ in this situation? The fact that C still trusts her at this point really breaks my heart. Trust me, it gets worse.

C then contacts Madi again. They urge her to look at what is happening in the server because G is taking anything down that pertains to the situation at hand; that some people in the server think that G is a crypto-fascist. Just the fact that they have to bring this up to her yet again speaks volumes doesn’t it? What it tells me is that Madi is not concerned at all about it and doesn’t really give a shit, yet again.

C then messages Madi again about how they think that it is a bad idea for G and R to both be mods of the group together because they are partners. R keeps apparently shielding G from members complaining about him and that this is causing a lot of drama to occur. Personally, I think the only solution to this was something that Madi was not willing to do; kick both G and R out of the community. Golly gee, I wonder why she refuses to do this?

Dude, you don’t have to say you’re sorry for bothering her at this point. I love how C just won’t drop it. If I was feeling unsafe in an online community I would do the same. However, I would have left ages ago because I am jaded and have seen how this kind of crap plays out in person and online over and over and over again. Don’t think you are witnessing some type of brand new phenomenon that has never happened in the goth subculture before. Racist white nationalists have been trying to infiltrate both the goth and punk scenes from the very beginning, with varying degrees of success.

Madi has the audacity to say that she doesn’t see any issues that would make people feel uncomfortable? Um…..how about those mods who refuse to answer that simple timeless question as to what their political views are when it comes to racist white nationalism?

C tells Madi the names of the other members who have had bad encounters with G. Why the fuck is all of this even happening? The first instance of racism in that community should have been met with an insta-ban, even if they were a moderator. The very fact that the act of banning G was completely off the table, before any evidence was even shown, tells the whole story, doesn’t it?

That is it for Part 3. The 4th article in this series all about Madi Danger’s late great goth Discord server will be put up this coming Sunday the 22nd. Thank you for reading!

Part 1

Part 2

Part 4

Madi Danger’s Goth Discord History Raises Some Red Flags/Part 2

January 18, 2023 / / 4 Comments
I stand with Woody Guthrie!

Hello, welcome back to my series of articles about the troubled history of Madi Danger’s goth Discord server. If you are new here the first article in this series can be found HERE. I was so overwhelmed with all of the information that I found regarding this that I didn’t really get into the reason why she originally piqued my interest. What did she do to get my knickers in such a twist? The fact that she pretty much came out of nowhere and started making misinformed videos about the goth subculture in general; she was presenting herself as some sort of self appointed expert about the subculture. Yet apparently nobody really knew who she was before she arrived. She is basically a goth grifter, and you can read more of my assessment right HERE. All of the screenshots below are a continuation of the ones found in my last article. Again, they are in the order in which I found them.

Your political beliefs have nothing to do with the server or why you are there? Why is G so damn adamant as to why he doesn’t want to answer a simple question? Could it be because he has some racist white nationalist views? There is no other logical reason for it. Seriously. This is a giant red flag, that if it was planted on the moon you would be able to see it without a telescope. C is absolutely in the right here and they fully deserve to know if that space contains people with racist white nationalist views. They don’t want to be victimized because those type of assholes love to bully, harass and threaten people like them. Yeah dude, it is Madi’s server and your refusal to answer a basic question about your beliefs when it comes to racist white supremacist ideology speaks volumes about who you are in my honest opinion.

Holy shit this asshole! It’s really obvious that G is still not wiling to answer that same simple question, and then he quips about not recruiting for a ‘Aryan Super Soldier program’? Again, C asks G if he is a Nazi sympathizer. I applaud C for taking a stand against all of this and for having the courage to keep fighting the good fight. Jello Biafra would be proud of them.

It all moves to the music section, in which both moderators G and R try to shut down C’s concern as to how the Discord channel is run. As a person who used to be a mod for the largest punk community on Facebook I have to say that the power-tripping that these moderators are displaying is a bit over the top. Instead of answering simple questions they choose to just shut down conversations. As a moderator I would never dismiss somebody’s concerns, because if they are getting to the point of complaining about something then it is important to them. It wouldn’t be fair for me to do nothing about it. Where there is smoke there is usually a fire of some sort, so it is always important to look into it.

Back to the general channel we go! How the hell does asking a moderator a simple question about their beliefs, when it comes to racist white nationalism, become a problem on an all ages server? Deflection is never a good look, just answer the damn question! C answers back that they have been getting messages from others in the server who are also concerned and feeling uncomfortable. I don’t blame them because even seven months after the fact I am feeling uncomfortable as hell reading G’s dismissive comments.

Fucking hell! Isn’t R just a pleasant person; telling C to leave if they feel uncomfortable instead of tackling the issues going on. Who knew that asking somebody about their political beliefs would be controversial? R and G can dance around the question all they want, but it’s as if they have opened a red flag factory and are planting them all over that server.

C goes to town and makes perfect sense. How the hell is a marginalized person supposed to feel safe in an online community when the moderators refuse to answer a very simple and serious question?

C goes on to describe the entire situation that has been allowed to take place on the server. Then one of Madi’s deluded fans tries to deflect by saying that there are a lot of Nazi punk bands. Said by a person who obviously doesn’t have a clue about the punk subculture and its history of not tolerating right winged ideologies. C sets them straight, and of course they are correct.

This new participant, let’s call them Z, is absolutely correct in their sentiment because this is indeed how racist white nationalists act. They wiggle their way into subcultures, dress like members of it and then when they feel safe and protected they start using dog whistles to test out the waters. If nobody confronts them they then think that they can get away with anything. Most of the time they are easy to spot, and if you have been around for decades in different subcultures, like I have, you will see this sort of thing happen time and time again. It is why there has always been a tradition of beating the crap out of them when they are found. I actually witnessed this first hand over thirty years ago at the punk club 924 Gilman in Berkeley. A group of WAR(white aryan resistance) skins tried to push their way into Gilman and the entire club emptied and gave chase to them down the street. I wanted to join in but the volunteer who used to help run the club held me back because they said I could get killed. My fellow punks beat the shit out of them and they didn’t come back. Hooray!

I feel Z’s frustration when it comes to this entire situation. I too am tired of seeing this kind of crap happening yet again. They even suggest starting another Discord channel and inviting Madi to it so that they can discuss this situation with her away from the moderators. Making jokes about literal Nazi sympathizers in this kind of situation is indeed not funny and it raises yet more red flags.

Z again makes excellent points. Their assessment of G at the end is a logical one to make given the circumstances.

A history lesson by Z about why fascists have always managed to squirm their way into both the industrial and goth subcultures. It’s because some people in the subcultures have always adopted historically fascist looking fashion. The actual fascists see this and think that their views will be accepted into the subcultures. This is the main reason why I never got into that kind of fashion, because it just looks way too close to Nazi uniforms for my comfort.

This is the continuation of that same paragraph. Z is right in saying that the original reason why the early punks adopted Nazi imagery was to piss of their parents and the general public who all worshipped the Allied victory in WW2. They were basically being edgelords, and Siouxsie has apologized for her own part in it. Real actual fascists from metal, punk and other subcultures come into the goth community because they think that historically goths accept everybody and are not political.

Yet another continuation of the paragraph that Z wrote. They go into how online goth communities don’t push back against fascism hard enough, which leaves an opening for the fascists to sneak in under the guise of ‘acceptance’. No, the goth community is not obliged to accept fascists into the community because such people should by be punched. Remember it is a time honoured tradition.

A third moderator, who we will call J, enters the fray. C thinks this is Madi’s now husband, BUT they also hinted that they think this may actually be Madi herself. I have no idea either way so jump to your own conclusions when it comes to this.

After this series of articles about what happened seven months ago I was going to take a peak at the current state of her goth Discord channel, but I learned from a friend that she took the server down sometime between then and now. I guess she thought that people would forget what happened or something equivalent to that? I have no clue.

So this will be the end of the second part of my series. The next article, part three, will be published on Friday the 20th. Thank you for reading!

Part 1

Part 3

Part 4

Madi Danger’s Goth Discord Server History Raises Some Red Flags/Part 1

January 16, 2023 / / 6 Comments
I stand with Jello. People who get it….get it.

EDIT: Since this post is the most viewed on my blog I would like to add another screenshot that makes everything crystal clear. This is a screenshot of a past cache of Madi’s black metal Spotify playlist. On it she has the white nationalist band Burzum not once but twice. Spotify playlists take forever to update so I got lucky. I underlined them in green. Solid proof she has some white nationalist sympathies.

I just want to start out by saying that all of the info in this article was gathered by reading a very long PUBLIC post that somebody made of this entire situation seven months ago. They also included some screen shots to prove their side of the story. So, none of this was created out of thin air. Why didn’t it gain traction? Because the person in question claims that they were hounded online by Madi, her husband, her fans and their friends. However, they kept their post up in the hopes that others would see it. This is going to be a long and detailed post so get your seatbelts on; it’s going to be a very bumpy ride. I will be sharing photos and commenting under each one. By the way they are all in order of appearance, nothing is left out.

The fact that Madi’s friend G, who is one of the mods running the server, says that they are more comfortable around Norwegian black metal musicians really, really raises a red flag. The person above is correct in saying that the black metal genre, and specifically the Norwegian variety, has a history of racism and white supremacy. Varg Vikernes is a racist murdering piece of shit, and to think otherwise is basically condoning his actions and white supremacist beliefs. This isn’t rocket science.

So, the poster feels uncomfortable about all of this because they are a person who is regularly marginalized. They ask G what they meant, and they don’t really get a straight answer. Not a great look at all. Personally, I probably would have lost it by this time and would have just told all of them to go fuck themselves. They are showing extreme restraint and I commend them for that.

They tried to get a straight answer from G, but their question was still ignored. They even asked G’s partner and fellow moderator, R, and they also didn’t give a straight answer. They also talk about how a post in the discord that was deleted for no reason by G. What was the subject? It was about how Nazi clothing has no place in the goth and industrial subcultures. Why was it deleted? Because apparently it was off subject, even though it is a goth discord. Yes, you read that correctly. There is also an accusation about a Jewish member being called a slur by G, however there is no screenshot of that so it cannot be confirmed.

Above is G. Gee I wonder if he has racist white nationalist sympathies? We are next going to go straight into screenshots of all of the messages talked about above, because he starts talking about Madi next in his tale and all of that needs to be seen together on its own in a separate dedicated post(s). All of these will be in order so no claims of discarding certain messages can be made. This is pretty much a huge information dump and the reason why I am splitting this article into different parts.

The conversation starts with the poster, let’s just call them C, answering a question posed by G. There is some regular banter with C just giving their opinion about some problematic Soundcloud rappers.

This is where G openly states that he would feel more comfortable around Norwegian black metal musicians. As stated earlier in this article Norwegian black metal has a reputation for harbouring racist white nationalist musicians. Are all Norwegian black metal musicians racist white nationalists? Of course not, however there is something about that subculture that attracts those type of people. This raised a huge red flag for C, and when I personally read that the hairs on the back of my neck stood up and I immediately thought about when Brandon Pybus of Sonsombre was found out to be a member of a racist neo-Confederate organization.

That bottom comment that G makes about Varg being a ‘wild and crazy guy’ just really irks the hell out of me. No, you know what Varg is? A murdering racist white nationalistic piece of shit who deserves to drown in his own filth. That statement of his just hoists that red flag all the way up the flagpole for me.

His statement is cut off but C basically just told G that Norwegian black metal has racist white nationalist issues. In response G says that they aren’t going to talk about that there. Gives no reason, just tries to shut down the conversation. They could have said something like ‘white nationalists in the Norwegian black metal scene suck and I don’t agree with their views at all’ and that would have just ended the entire conversation. However, he chose not to do that. Hmmmm…..I wonder why?

Oh shit!!!! G just up and says ‘I don’t support politics on either side in the scene’. That ‘encouraging violence in any scene is intolerable’ is his reasoning and I am just so awed by this lack of self awareness on display here. C comments that they think that one side is definitely worse, and I agree. Racist white nationalists suck and should be punched, because that is a time honoured tradition in the punk and goth subcultures. Something that goes back all the way to the 1970’s. The simple fact that G doesn’t know or acknowledge this is sketchy as hell. G then says that he has to keep the place ‘safe for everyone’. Safe for who? Racist white nationalists?

C makes it clear that they want just a straight answer, and G fobs them off yet again. Being brave as hell C announces that they are going to have to leave the server if there are any white nationalists or people with Nazi beliefs. Then yet again they tell G that they don’t understand the status quote that G keeps trying to say is his opinion on white nationalism. G’s response to all of this just takes the cake. In other words G just doesn’t give a shit. What he really fails to grasp is that the goth subculture historically has always been left winged and not tolerant of right wing racist white nationalist bullshit. Remember folks, this is supposed to be a goth Discord community, not anything having to do with metal. Yet the moderator seemingly knows nothing about the history of the goth subculture. Doesn’t that sound familiar?

I can just feel C’s frustration at not getting a straight answer right now. At any point during this entire ordeal G could have just stepped up and said what they believed in, but nope they take the cowardly way out and say yet again that they don’t like letting politics ‘fuel’ their friendships or communities. Then G has the fucking audacity to respond flippantly when C asks him what his status means politically. The cold hard truth of this is G is a moderator of Madi’s dedicated goth Discord server, so this does not reflect well on her at all. Seriously.

C again asks for an answer to their question. What happens? G then claims, in all of his stupidity, that ‘finding’ politics in the goth subculture would ruin the scene because they assume that there aren’t any politics in the subculture at all. Let’s just take a minute to digest that before we go on. Ready? G obviously does not know crap about the goth subculture at all, because if he did they wouldn’t say something so amazingly ignorant. Why the hell is somebody who knows so little about the subculture put as a moderator of a Discord server that is supposed to be a resource for information about the goth subculture? Madi is putting herself out there as some sort of fount of knowledge about the goth subculture and this is what she comes up with? Oh hell to the no. The goth subculture has always been left leaning and political. Did Siouxsie wear stupid Nazi shit over 40 years ago? Yes, and she apologized for it because she realized how wrong she had been. Since the full formation of the goth subculture in the early 80’s musicians who espouse racist white nationalistic views are condemned by the majority and pushed away when found out. There are, of course, dumb racist idiots who will support such musicians but they are definitely in the minority, especially right now. If anything the subculture has grown even more political within the last ten years, which can only be a good thing.

Don’t look for trouble where there isn’t any? You know what I find troublesome? When somebody refuses to clearly state what their stance is on racist white nationalistic beliefs.

Dude, you literally told C that your political stance on racist white nationalism was in your profile. How the hell is somebody on a GOTH Discord server supposed to know that the quote you pointed them to is based on a METAL meme? Please don’t think that I have anything against metal music as a whole. In fact Danzig is one of my favourite bands and I saw the original line-up live back in 1992. So if anybody wants to claim that I know nothing about metal music they can full on kiss my ass. In fact I have been writing this post with the help of the first four Danzig albums. Oh, and I almost forgot. On top of all of that I was going to the punk club 924 Gilman in Berkeley over 30 years ago so I in turn know quite a bit about punk music. I am a triple threat; a woman who knows a lot about both goth and punk music while having a decent understanding of metal music. I hope that makes these moderators, and Madi, uncomfortable. C, yet again, asks for clarification which should earn them some sort of trophy for tenacity at this point.

In comes G’s partner R to the rescue! I’m sure they will have a rational explanation for all of this since R is G’s significant other. So asking whether or not a moderator has racist white nationalistic views isn’t goth? Oh, I forgot. We are supposed to be really meek and roll over and bark at your command because the goth subculture is filled with people with no political beliefs. Right? Fuck right off with that nonsense. I have absolutely no pity for people who are this damn ignorant. So G is stating that C is looking for ‘problems’ for asking the same damn simple question over and over again? None of this looks good for either of the moderators or for Madi herself, since she presents herself as knowledgable about the goth subculture and this is her dedicated goth Discord server.

Part two in this series will be up on Wednesday the 18th. I was not kidding when I said this is an info dump.

Part 2

Part 3

Part 4

My Dystopian Life Alternative Club Classics

January 12, 2023 / / 0 Comments

EDIT: It is now 84 songs with no repeated bands. I hate the heck out of Spotify, and don’t use it, but I have decided to start creating a playlist based on the music that I heard in alternative clubs in 88-92. It is a work in progress so this isn’t its final form. During those four years I went clubbing on a pretty regular basis, even multiple times a week. So, these are actual songs that were played back then not some fever dream of somebody who wishes they lived back then. Yes, rap/hip-hop songs were played at all of the alternative clubs in the San Francisco Bay Area back then, and I had a whole lot of fun dancing to them! From what I understand this was not as common in other areas of the US, so this list only represents what I experienced and is not indicative of what happened elsewhere.

Hope you have fun listening to this and discover songs that are new to you.

That Time I Got A Backstage Pass To Meet Love & Rockets In 1989

January 6, 2023 / / 0 Comments
The song that really made them big in 1989.

This is quite a funny story with some very strange moments mixed into it. Since there were no cameras allowed in the venue I have no photographic proof that this happened, but that was very typical back then. All names have been changed to protect the innocent and not so innocent.

Anyways! In July of 1989 I was an eighteen year old weirdo into punk, alternative and what would soon be labeled goth music. The goth tag didn’t infiltrate that area of California until 90-91. I had just graduated high school and was so happy that I was out of that hellhole that I saw this show as a reward of sorts. I had two tickets and was going with three friends, one of whom drove all of us from Fremont to the Greek Theatre in Berkeley. One friend, let’s name her Tracy, had actually lost her ticket and I let her have my extra one for free because that is what friends are for.

It was a general admission type show so we got there before noon and ended up first in line. It was very hot so we brought some shade protection and water but it wasn’t enough. Through the gate you could see their roadies and others walking back and forth getting things done. One of them had longish magenta hair and he would wave to us and smile. It was just really cool for somebody to acknowledge our tenacity in that heat.

I guess we looked very hot and miserable so that same roadie actually passed us some water and some fruit through the gates. This was a very cool thing for him to do and we thanked him profusely. Soon afterwards one of my friends, Ophelia, left the line to find a bathroom, and while she was gone the same roadie came over to us again with something in his hands; backstage passes! No joke! He proceeded to hand them out to our little group, and to two other women who were behind us in line. It was such a small weirdo world back then that I actually knew one of them. It all happened so quickly that we didn’t have a pass for Ophelia who then came back from the bathroom. That part of it really sucked, but we didn’t see the roadie again before the gates were finally opened. Word had gotten out about us getting those passes and I actually had a trendy alternative dude from my old high school ask if he could buy mine off of me for $50. Big hell to the no!

The prime area to watch a show unobstructed at that venue was standing on a bench that was on the path separating the pit and the tiers above. You had a barrier to lean against and you could see the stage with no obstructions. The Godfathers, the opening band, played and they were quite good and energetic. After they finished Ophelia mysteriously took off and was gone for about thirty minutes. When she came back she was magically holding a pass. She never told us how she got it so I’m guessing that some special exchange of body fluids is what occurred. You’ll find out why I think that later. Don’t worry, she was nineteen so nothing illegal took place.

The most famous song by the opening band The Godfathers.

Then Love & Rockets came out and they were really, really on fire that night. There was even a special appearance on stage of one of the Bubblemen, full costume and everything! It was a lot of fun, and when the show ended we went to the left side of the stage, all holding our passes like the rare treasures that they were. I mean, it’s not like we thought that we were going to get backstage passes or anything like that. My friends and I, and the two other women, didn’t look ubergoth or anything like that. We all looked alternative in one way or another. I wore the atypical black leather jacket of the time. I stuck some band stickers on the back of it and painted a quote from the PiL song Memories below them. It was 100% DIY because that is what you had to do back then if you wanted to wear something different looking. I’m just saying all of this to make the point that you don’t have to wear expensive clothes or a ton of make-up to actually talk to the ‘goth’ musicians that you like.

We get to the backstage entrance and the security guy tells all of us that we have to stick the patches on our clothing. I told him I was going to put it on the back of my jacket and asked him if that was okay. Got a nod and had Tracy stick in on for me. Away we went into the unknown!

You are probably wondering how nervous I was at this point. Very, but excited at the same time! What’s funny is that two years earlier some asshole at my high school made fun of me for not knowing about their first album, and guess who was meeting them? Me and not him! Hooray! Well, we walked into a large back room which was where the band food was to see members of The Godfathers and the really good backup singer that performed with Love & Rockets. Who was by the way a real sweetheart and I think I made her day when I got her to sign my jacket. She performed with them so she counted as a member of the band in my eyes. Backup singers are the unsung heroes of the music world.

No sign of Love & Rockets. One of the two other women asked if the band was going to come out because we wanted some things signed. She was the only person in the whole group of us who had a marker, and it was a cool pink metallic colour. I think security went down the hall and a minute later said that we can hand him our things and they will sign them. I had bought a shirt so I handed it over and about ten minutes later we received back our freshly signed gear. That wasn’t the end, so don’t think that all of us went down without a fight. Another one of us complained quite loudly as to why give us backstage passes if we don’t even get to meet the band. The rest of us joined in and I guess the band heard and soon all six of us were ushered into the inner sanctum; the band dressing room.

In the midst of all of this Ophelia told us quietly that The Godfathers wanted her to hang out with them at the club The Berkeley Square. However, she claimed that she couldn’t go because she had no way of getting home afterwards. I mean, she could have walked to BART in the morning, but I’m guessing she didn’t want to do the walk of shame. Which leads me to think that she got that backstage pass by doing something with a member of that band. She was willing to do something once, but not a second time. Again, she was nineteen years old so nothing illegal took place. I only knew her for two more years after this because she turned out to be one of those type of people who will kiss anybody’s ass to get what she wanted. That really, really irked me so I stopped being friends with her. She was kind of like a social vampire; just very draining.

The set list that Love & Rockets played that night.

Daniel Ash was standing in the corner looking at us with no expression, David J was on one end of the couch looking stoic, while Kevin Haskins was all smiles. One of the first things that happened was Kevin getting the pen from the other woman, then physically he turned me around and started to draw one of the Bubblemen on the back of my jacket. He did all of this with a smile on his face and you could tell that he was really enjoying himself and that he was in his element. When you have met a lot of musicians you learn which vibes mean what and he really came across as a genuinely nice person. Wait, I can hear you asking, what about Daniel and David? You have got to understand how absolutely gorgeous Daniel Ash was back then in person. However, I got tired of him just standing there and staring at us so I went up to him and started babbling and somehow I got onto the subject of the film This Is Spinal Tap. Yes, I talked about the film This Is Spinal Tap with Daniel Ash. I don’t remember what he said exactly, but soon it didn’t matter because we were all told that we needed to leave.

When I turned around I saw my friends but no Kevin Haskins. I asked what had happened to him and was told by Ophelia that Tracy had been sitting on the sofa arm and she had accidentality kicked Kevin in the nuts! When I was talking to Daniel I remember hearing a small commotion but that was it. So, one of us managed to accidentally kick in the nuts the nicest musician in the room. I remember Tracy constantly repeating ‘Oh my god!’ on the way back to the car because she felt so bad about it.

The really, really funny thing about all of this is that I learned years later that Daniel Ash has always had kind of a reputation of willingly having sex with his female fans, So, I guess all of us didn’t look hot enough to get banged by Daniel? I am so happy that he didn’t hit on me because that would have spoiled the whole thing in my opinion. Where is that leather coat and can you buy it from me? Unfortunately that jacket is long gone, which is what happens when you move around a lot.

Hey Daniel, if by some miracle you are reading this I hope you took my advice and watched This Is Spinal Tap because it is a very funny film. Oh, and Kevin thank you for being a really cool person and I am so sorry that a member of my group accidentality harmed you.

My 50 Favourite Goth Songs Of All Time!!!

December 31, 2022 / / 0 Comments
It would be fun dancing to these songs in this space.

For a start I would like to state that this list isn’t meant to be something definitive; a list of goth songs that you must listen to. These just happen to be my personal favourite goth songs. Don’t pay attention to the order because that changes all of the time, and I am only numbering them to keep them straight in my head so that I don’t repeat myself. Some songs are of the crossover variety, mainly synthpop meets goth, because the distinctions between the two back in the 80’s/90’s was more fuzzy than today, and there will be multiple entries for a few bands. A lot of them will be old, because I’m old. Off we go!

50. Lords Of The New Church – Dance With Me (1983)

49. Pawns – Broken (2019)

48. Nosferatu – Close (1993)

47. Red Lorry Yellow Lorry – Hand On Heart (1985)

46. Sex Gang Children – Sebastiane (1983)

45. Until December – Heaven (1986)

44. Samhain – Archangel (1984)

43. Lacrimosa – Kabinett Der Sinne (1995)

42. Die Form – Phenomena Of Visitation (1996)

41. Blancmange – Living On The Ceiling (1982)

40. Specimen – Kiss Kiss Bang Bang (1983)

39. Gene Loves Jezebel – Always A Flame (1985)

38. Christian Death – This Is Heresy (1988)

37. Soft Cell – Sex Dwarf (1981)

36. Virgin Prunes – Love Lasts Forever (1986)

35. TSOL – Beneath The Shadows (1982)

34. Killing Joke – Love Like Blood (1985)

33. Alien Sex Fiend – Hurricane Fighter Plane (1987)

32. The Cult – Rain (1985)

31. Love & Rockets – Love Me (1986)

30. This Ascension – Angel Light (1994)

29. The Tear Garden – Ophelia (1987)

28. Astrovamps – Vampira (1993)

27. Necromantik Sunshine – London Dungeon (2001)

26. Diva Destruction – The Broken Ones (1999)

25. Element – Red Meat & Beauty Queens (1998)

24. Cocteau Twins – Carolyn’s Fingers (1988)

23. Collide – Beneath The Skin (1996)

22. Samhain – I Am Misery (1984)

21. My Life With The Thrill Kill Kult – The Days Of Swine & Roses (1990)

20. Red Flag – If I Ever (1989)

19. Ministry – Every Day Is Halloween (1984)

18. Fields Of The Nephilim – Blue Water (1987)

17. Corpus Delecti – Noxious (The Demon’s Game) (1994)

16. Tones On Tail – Go! (1984)

15. Christian Death – Church Of No Return (1988)

14. The Chameleons – In Shreds (1982)

13. Die Form – Rain Of Blood (1997)

12. Wumpscut – Mother (1995)

11. Rosetta Stone – Leave Me For Dead (1991)

10. Mephisto Walz – The Starveling (1993)

9. The Damned – Alone Again Or (1987)

8. Gene Loves Jezebel – Heartache (1986)

7. Sex Gang Children – Deiche (1984)

6. Killing Joke – Follow The Leaders (1981)

5. Fade To Grey – Visage (1982)

4. TSOL – Code Blue (1981)

3. Virgin Prunes – The Walls Of Jericho (1982)

2. Lycia- Pray (1995)

1. B-Movie – Nowhere Girl (1982)

People Desperately Want To Be Called Goth Right Now

December 29, 2022 / / 0 Comments
I was minding my own business when I came upon this earlier today.

Sometimes I’ll sit around trying to figure out what the heck to write about next. Most of the time ideas pop right into my head out of nowhere, but sometimes the social media gods/goddesses smile down upon me and plop a bundle of joy right onto my lap. The interaction that I had with this person easily proves why some gatekeeping is absolutely necessary in the goth subculture.

So, the above kid is asking what name should those who dress ‘goth’ but don’t listen to the actual music be called. The simple answer is of course a poseur. Oh noes, professional trendy ‘goth’ fashion victims outnumber actual goths, that must mean they are right? This is a case of a kid, at least I hope they are young, so desperate for the ‘goth’ tag that they try to tell actual goths what the goth subculture is like. You would be correct in thinking that this isn’t going to go very well for them. My responses to them are circled in green, while theirs and others are red.

I didn’t jump into this first section because the cringe was heavy in the air.

Look at our little dude/dudette go! They don’t want to hear the truth, rather they want to be validated in their self imposed wannabe gothdom; like Batman in his batcave. See what I did there?

Oh lord…….

Do you know why people in the goth community get pissed off about others using the label without listening to the music? Because trendy fashion victims are calling themselves goth without listening to the music. It’s really that simple and not that complicated. They don’t need a ‘culturally sensitive’ name, they are the living and breathing definitions of a goth subculture poseur. If they don’t like that then they do indeed need a new hobby. I’m not wrong in my assessment.

I wasn’t exaggerating when I said this fell into my lap.

Am I one of those ‘musical’ goths? I do love GiGi, Singing In The Rain, The Sound Of Music and The Wizard Of Oz. Oh wait, I think he meant ‘music’ goths. He says it like it’s dirty to listen to goth music. This is where they expose the fact that they are pissed off at being called a poseur. They called me a gatekeeper in response because they didn’t like the answer that they received. Tough luck buttercup, the music is very important to the subculture and your little temper tantrum isn’t going to change that fact.

I love when they go down this road.

The dude/dudette is denying they want the goth tag, all while making a post on Reddit complaining about people denying him, and his friends, the goth tag. They aren’t the brightest crayon in the box.

I feel like I should be watching a musical right now.

Goths are into actual goth music and get pissed off when trendy fashion victims call themselves goth for just dressing in black. Who would have thunk it? If they keep running into this ‘problem’ then maybe they need to learn some self awareness.

Another idiot has to throw in that Joy Division is a goth band.

You know how I feel about Joy Division being called a ‘goth’ band. I couldn’t help but interact with this interloper.

Where to start?

Out of every interaction that I had with this poseur this is my favourite part. I love how they actually say the truth for a second, then double back saying it isn’t a genre of music that goths listen to any longer. How dare goths listen to actual goth music! How dare they!

Again, I really hope this person is young.

They really do come across as somebody who has been called a poseur quite a few times. They can dance around this all they want, but that doesn’t negate the fact that they don’t listen to actual goth music. It’s really quite fascinating just how important the goth tag is for this person; denial is not a river in Egypt. Damn those darn music goths, damn them all! Yes, I would have the balls to call this person a poseur to their face. Seriously.

Oh noes, they corrected my spelling! Whatever shall I do?

They really are acting just like a child having a tantrum. They can bang on the gate of goth till they are blue in the face, but because they and their friends don’t listen to actual goth music they will never be let in. They claim that those darn ‘music’ goths are in a minority where they live. That would come down to the fact that him and his wannabe goth friends exist in an echo chamber, in which no actual goth person resides. So goths who listen to actual goth bands are now elitists? Considering the idiocy on show here I will wear that ‘insult’ as a badge of honour.

Yes, I do like musicals and I have no shame.

Apparently it is rude now to tell people the truth instead of validating their wonky self-made identity. This sort of thing always makes me wonder how people deal with situations such as this in the offline world. They even add the whole gatekeeping trope that normally appears in these sorts of online confrontations. Again, why this desperate need for the goth tag?

Christ on a crutch.

Dude, you can wear whatever the hell you want, nobody is stopping you. However, the minute you call yourself a goth without even giving the music a chance you become the living and breathing embodiment of a poseur. Want to dress in black and not be called a poseur then stop calling yourself a goth. It really is that simple. If the ‘normies’ are calling you a goth it’s because they think it is only about a style of clothes. When have the ‘normies’ ever been right about alternative subcultures?

Oh the humanity!

Apparently I am supposed to be over sixty if I listen to actual goth music. I only have nine more years left until I came become one of those infamous ‘musical’ goths! This has me rather excited. Can you tell?

Oh FFS.

Oh yes, isn’t it rather silly that goths listen to actual goth music? They have probably been called a poseur by multiple people in the goth community and keep trying to get the answer that they want to hear. Remember, the person keeps insisting that they don’t want the goth tag all while bitching about those mean ‘musical’ goths not accepting them into the goth subculture. I am disappointed because they obviously already have their answer, but they refuse to believe it.

I’ll do what I like, you aren’t the boss of me!

….and that attitude makes you a poseur.

This was my original answer to their question.

How am I wrong? Even thirty years ago the people just into the fashion aspect of things were called poseurs. Want to make a bet that they didn’t even read my link?

Well, that is it for today. Sometimes people do not want to listen to the truth and that is on them, not on you.

Thoughts On The Goth Grifter

December 26, 2022 / / 0 Comments
Wednesday, the latest image that the goth grifter is poaching.

I can hear you asking, what is a goth grifter? To put it simply it is somebody using the goth subculture in order to make money, receive free gifts, or to gain popularity in ‘alternative’ subculture circles in general. Through my years of listening to goth and punk music and participating in various ‘scenes’ I have seen my fair share of them so it is fairly easy for me to root them out. All of the information included in this article is public and quite easy to find so I didn’t have to dig far to get any of it.

One year ago Madi Danger thought that all post-punk music was goth, as evidenced above. EDIT: As of 15/01 she has taken down my comment. Too late Madi, too late!!!!!

The most recent really obvious case that has totally jump started me into finally writing about this is the mysterious appearance of the self proclaimed metal and goth music lover Madi Danger. I first saw her on YouTube last year when she made a ‘intro to goth music’ video that misrepresented Echo &The Bunnymen and Joy Division both as goth bands. I corrected her just on the Bunnymen inclusion, because I didn’t feel like being called a gatekeeper. She came back with the whole ‘post-punk is a genre under the goth umbrella’ fallacy. I automatically thought that she must be really young to think that since it is surface level misinformation. Somebody older and wiser would know differently. Well, guess what? Imagine my surprise when I found out that she was twenty-four years old when she wrote the above misinformation.

The question that immediately comes to my mind is why would a fully grown ass woman in her mid-twenties suddenly hitch her trailer to the goth subculture? She obviously knows a whole lot about metal music and is a big fan of that genre. Yet, she all of a sudden likes goth and wants to share her surface level knowledge of it with everybody? It just really feels inauthentic, like she is hitching her identity now to ‘goth’ because it is what is very popular. She has the teased hair, the clothes, and all of the frippery, but it’s just really a shell that is easily cracked. She is using goth as an additive to her already metal identity, to gain more attention and more of a following. You know what? I wouldn’t hold anything against her at all if she was a youngster, but she is now twenty-six years old. This is a grift for subculture clout, and a painfully obvious one at that.

They quite frequently will call themselves a ‘trad goth’, which always makes me roll my eyes.

The next kind of goth grifter that I have run into a lot online are the ones who call themselves ‘trad goth’. They think that calling themselves such will gain them more goth community clout since the goth grifter feels that anything out of the 80’s is cool. They copy what they think the 80’s were like, but since they weren’t even born in that decade it just comes across as really shallow and reeks of desperation. They want what the 80’s produced, such as goth music, without any of the hardships that the people who actually went through that decade lived through. It’s the exact same crap as the wannabe hippies of the late 80’s; people longing for a decade, which in reality, they probably would not have fit into.

They link to an Amazon wish-list, because of course they do.

The goth grifter doesn’t really have any shame and will usually openly advertise their Amazon wish-list as the person above has done. They do this, of course, to receive free products. My huge question about this is why the heck do they think that they deserve free merch from complete strangers? What are they producing that is so damn special that they think that they deserve these goods? It takes some ego to think that their contribution to the goth subculture is that important and that worthy of attention, when in fact the information they share is usually limited and based off of misinformation. So instead of helping the subculture they hinder it, because all of the youngsters who follow these grifters head down the same path of outright lies and half truths. It’s a goth circle jerk.

Your ‘goth queen’? Oh FFS.

I feel kind of bad for calling out this particular person in the last three photos but they embody so perfectly the point I am making. I have been running this blog as a hobby for over two years now and never once did I think that it would be okay for me to throw up an Amazon wish-list so that I could get free crap. In fact I do not make a dime at all from doing any of this. I do this because I love both the goth and punk subcultures and want to share real information, not half truths and lies that I have pulled out of my ass. I was actually a teen in the 80’s who lived through that decade not somebody playing 80’s dress-up for cash and prizes.

Because of the mainstream popularity of the series Wednesday you now have numerous goth grifters who think that dressing in black and copying a dance makes them automatically a goth. It reminds me of when Mansonites in the 90’s did the same exact crap; copying an image that they think gives them an entryway into the goth subculture, when in reality the opposite is true. When people try so hard to match an image is just reeks of desperation. How is any of this different from the endless grifting that the Kardashians do on social media? It’s done for the exact same reason; to be popular despite not having a discernable talent. Oh wow, you can buy some black clothes online and do over the top ‘goth’ make-up. In the words of Teddy Roosevelt; bully for you. You don’t deserve special treatment for it, or over the top praise for doing what thousands have done before you.

What is the best thing you can do? Not give money or gifts to any of these goth grifters. Within a few years they will more than likely drop out of the subculture and pivot to another grift. Remember Sebastian Columbine? No? My point exactly.

In Which I Answer Some Basic Goth Questions For The Masses

December 7, 2022 / / 0 Comments
How spooky!

For whatever reason there are tons of people right now asking the same basic questions about the goth subculture. Who am I kidding, we know exactly why so many questions are being asked right now; being ‘goth’ is a huge trend train that lots of people who have no clue about the actual subculture want to jump on. All of these questions are ones that I have seen asked online over and over and over again. So they are real, not anything I have made up. All aboard!

Am I goth if I wear the colour black?

No, because the goth subculture doesn’t own the colour. Plenty of people outside of the subculture also wear black, such as metalheads, priests, nuns, etc… Go forth and wear all of the black you want, nobody should be stopping you for doing so. However, it doesn’t magically transport you into the goth subculture or make you a member of it. It’s a music based subculture, not one based upon the colour of clothes that you wear.

What clothes do I have to buy and what music do I have to listen to in order to be a Victorian/vampire/trad/cyber/mall goth?

This is the one question that really gets my knickers in a twist. Those ‘goth types’ were started as a joke in the 90’s, making fun of the stereotypes found in goth clubs. That is all it was meant to be, it wasn’t meant to be a roadmap as to how to belong to the subculture. There are some self described ‘elder goths’ who have actually argued with me about this, saying that people used to take it seriously back in the day. No they did not. In the area that I lived during the 90’s somebody even made stickers based on the stereotypes and I found some in a vending machine in a Pizza Hut in San Francisco in 1998. I only remember that because I was the assistant manager of a Spirit Halloween store during that time and would always get pizza for lunch. If you want to tick all of the boxes off to become a certain stereotype within the subculture nobody is going to stop you but you will get a massive amount of eye rolling. Instead of wanting to be a stereotype just be yourself. Announcing to the world that you want to be a certain type of goth is never a great look.

Do I have to listen to only goth music to be a goth?

Of course not. The only group of people in the goth community who have ever believed that are the uber goobers, who have always been boring as hell. I listen to goth, metal, thrash, punk, disco, 70’s/80’s soul, old school rap/hip-hop, classical, new wave, blues,etc… I have always been into multiple forms of music and I have no shame in admitting it. Goth music has many styles, such as deathrock, goth rock, darkwave, ethereal and cold wave. If you try out each style and don’t like any of them you are more than likely just darkly inclined and there is nothing wrong with that. If this pisses you off then you should be asking yourself why is being goth so important to you and as to why you want that label so much in the first place.

Do I have to buy clothes from expensive online dark alternative stores to be a goth?

The answer to that is a huge no! There are a bunch of younger people running around right now looking like wannabe witches and slamming onto the gates guarding the goth community wanting in even though they don’t listen to the music. It is a music based subculture not one that is totally based on how you look. The people saying otherwise are straight up liars. If you are starting out just buy black basic clothes from a regular store, or even a thrift store, and get some accessories off of Etsy to jazz them up. Some regular stores, such as New Look in the UK, are known for carrying some goth friendly clothes. Every single time I go to the one near me I walk out with something.

Do I have to buy clothes from thrift stores in order to be a goth?

One of the main ways I used to get clothes back in the 80’s/90’s was by going to thrift stores. I lived in an area that had a lot of good ones so I was very lucky. Where I live now the thrift stores are hard to get to and are very overpriced so I just avoid them. If there are no thrift stores near you, or if they suck where you live, don’t worry about it.

Do I have to learn DIY skills to be a goth?

I have been doing DIY type clothing projects for decades and I am completely self taught. I learned to hand sew back in the 80’s and I can hem, dart, add buttons,etc…I have always upcycled clothing. I have even bought Killstar items on clearance in the past and made them look completely different. I can also do stud work and paint on leather/pleather which is a very easy thing to learn. There are a ton of tutorials on YouTube showing you how to do all of these kinds of projects. By learning DIY skills you can curate your own style so that you don’t look exactly the same as everybody else, plus it’s a lot of fun!

Do I have to be skinny and white to be a goth?

This question always breaks my heart. White skinny women and men have always been the go to for the goth aesthetic look that some directors, subculture magazines and others have been pushing since the 80’s. I would say it has only been within the last five years that you see people of colour being more visually represented within the subculture. It should have happened way sooner than that. You do not need to be white or skinny to be a goth. Don’t let anybody tell you otherwise.

Why is metal music not considered goth?

Metal music has historically never been considered goth. One of the main reasons being that metalheads, back in the 80’s, used to threaten and beat the crap out of punks and anybody else who looked ‘alternative’. That includes goths. I personally never got jumped, BUT a whole lot of male metalheads used to give me crap all of the time. Also, the music developed totally separately from it. Goth music developed out of punk, while metal developed out of 60’s rock and psychedelic music. You can, of course, like metal music and goth music at the same time. I have always loved the hell out of early Danzig and even saw them play in 1992.

When and how do I become an elder goth?

An elder goth is considered to be somebody who has been into the music for decades and still supports the subculture in one way or another. I started getting into the music in 1986 and have always been a goth-punk weirdo so I am considered to be an elder goth. I have seen some people around my age who just got into wearing black clothing who claim they are elder goths. Yes, I have personally seen that happen online and I find it really annoying and fake. You can dress in expensive clothing and wear a ton of make-up but just because you are older doesn’t mean you are an elder goth. It takes a decade or two, not a credit card, to be considered one.

How do I become a goth influencer?

This question does my head in. Seriously. Younger people see ‘goth’ influencers online getting a bunch of free swag and want exactly the same. For them it is not about the music, instead it is about curating an image; one in which they think will make them more ‘goth’. Nothing can be further from the truth. I call this the Kardashianization of the goth subculture and it is just gross. Not all goths with a YouTube, or other social media platform, push clothing, but so many do that it just becomes a blurry mess of pentacles, platform boots and loads of over the top make-up. They give the impression that all goths dress to the nines every single day, when in fact we don’t. I’m laying around in my Star Wars pyjamas right now typing this.

Do I have to dye my hair, or get tattoos and piercings to be considered goth?

Sometimes it trips me out just how ‘in’ it is these days to get tattoos, piercings and bright hair colours. All three have become totally mainstreamed so you won’t really look ‘different’ doing so. You don’t have to do any of this to be goth because it is just window dressing. These days if you see somebody dressed in all black with green hair walking down the street chances are you won’t have anything in common with them because they are just following a trend. It’s sad but it’s the truth.

Well, that is it for now. Whomever you are I hope this helps you on your journey into the goth subculture or at least points you in the right direction. Always be you, not a stereotype that you think people want to see.

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